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Topic: A question for the newbie pedal players................. |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 20 Nov 2012 8:40 pm |
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How did YOU initially start employing pedals on your E9th Tuning?
Was it just instinct?
Was it just CHANCE?
Or, did you apply pedals when you were in need of a SLANT?
Just curious......... |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 21 Nov 2012 5:43 am
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Ray, I am a newbie, 1 year of playing, and never played non-pedal. So bar slants never entered the picture for me. I knew enough to know how to use the pedals for some basic chords, so I just began playing chords, letting them flow together. For someone new to steel, that ability to just have chords morph into another, totally different chord is pretty amazing. I spent hours just doing that, getting comfortable with the bar, pedals, knees, grips, etc.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 21 Nov 2012 6:57 am
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Here's my SLANT on things. The pedal steel is a completely different beast from the lap steel. I am the crappiest lap steel player on the planet, but I can play pedal steel with skill and confidence. The two instruments are related but have so many differences as well. The only reason I see to slant on a pedal steel is to get a certain unique sound that the same change on a pedal or lever can't give you. And this is definitely player preference and not something the average listener's ear would give a hoot about.
Most pedal players start with the AB pedals. I think this is common knowledge. And those bends will give you a smoother transition of the basic I-IV chordal notes than a slant. I've seen some non-pedal players scrambling to do a flurry of slants and it sounds like a scalded cat unless you execute them with exact precision. You have got to be VERY good to make slants sound in tune like pedal steel pulls.
Slants are all fine and dandy, but there are a lot of things you can do on pedal steel that easily surpass what you can get with slants. In my opinion, slants became unnecessary with the advent of pedals, and non-pedal players use them now primarily because they have no interest in learning pedal steel and are utilizing their skill to get what they want out of an instrument that has no mechanical ability to alter the pitch of notes. Or they know how to play both instruments but enjoy the challenge of executing slants.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 21 Nov 2012 7:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 21 Nov 2012 6:58 am Huh!
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| What's a slant? |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 21 Nov 2012 11:36 am
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I played lap steel for years before I got a pedal steel. I began using the pedals immediately because, well, if I wanted the same kind of sound as I got playing slants on the lap steel, why would I switch to pedal steel?
The sound of pedals changing the pitch of a string or strings is different than slanting the bar. I want that sound, so I step on the pedals.
That being said, I have to admit being enamored by the pedals and do not use as much bar movement on pedal steel as I should. That's something I'm working on. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 21 Nov 2012 7:48 pm Thanks much.......................
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I surely appreciate your individual points of view regarding the initial challenge of playing pedal steel guitar.
Hopefully others will participate in this topic with us. |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 24 Nov 2012 2:29 pm
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I did have a cheap lap steel before starting on pedals but didn't really play it the way it was supposed to be played, more or less treated it as an extended slide guitar in E or A major tuning, so I knew nothing about slants. When I got my first PSG, I was after "that" sound that I heard on the records so the first thing I figured out was how to use the A+B pedals.
Only this year I got seriously into lap steel (and got my first good one) because for the kind of music I am playing with my new band, a pedal steel just doesn't sound right. I agree with Chris LeDrew, they are like completely different instruments. About slants, getting it right after lots of practice makes me feel like I've accomplished something. In comparison, pushing pedals is not that hard to do. I guess for me it was "the other way around"... |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 24 Nov 2012 4:24 pm
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I'd played lap steel for about 40 years before I bought a pedal steel. When I did it came with E9 tuning and standard Nashville copedant, (if there is such a thing.) I'd never used E9 before, but I figured I'd try it out since everyone else seemed to be using it.
I'm still not enamored with the top two re-entrant strings, and I use the C6 neck more than the E9 neck.
Ironically, I rarely use slants on pedal steel; I use them most on a lap steel which I keep set up with the G#min. Lute tuning. What I play on that is directly connected to my lute playing.
My alter ego.  |
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Scott Akers
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2012 9:27 pm
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My 6 months of pedal steel have been fantastic in the sense that I feel I learn something new almost everytime I sit down to play. I'm amazed and awed by the sounds that can be conjured from this thing.
I play a tele and a 6 string lapsteel in a local band but am nowhere near ready to pull out my PSG for a gig.
For now, I am looking at a lot of you tube sites, ie joe barcus, mickey adams, and Patricia Warnock's E9 fretboard chart, and Jesse Leite's Pedal Steel Guitar E9 Fretboard Reference. Also listening to songs past and present and trying to figure 'em out on my own using the above mentioned chord charts as a reference.
I'm probably spinning my wheels learning in such a haphazard way but it sure is fun. I've heard that Jeff Newman's "up from the top" series is a great play to really learn pedals and levers systematically and hope to acquire them soon. |
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Tom Grosz
From:
Carlisle, Pennsylvania
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Posted 27 Nov 2012 5:58 pm
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I started using the pedals much like a mad scientist!
The Scientist: Before I even had one I was studying what pedals and levers did from a theory perspective. I figured through in my head what moves would get me which sounds. And I mimicked the moves before my guitar arrived.
The Mad: What happens if I pick these when I do this? Oh, that sound on this song is different, how can I do that? Wait, what did I just do? |
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Joe Gall
From:
DeLand, Florida
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Posted 27 Nov 2012 6:57 pm
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It's been a year for me. I found a chart that showed the chords using the pedals and knowing basic chord structure and which chords go with each other etc. that was all I needed to get me going at the very least.
The knees are what I am failing to incorporate as I should be...
_________________
Been at this damn thing for a few years now. Not so sure that I'm getting anywhere but it is fun. Sometimes. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 Nov 2012 9:37 am
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| Joe Gall wrote: |
| ...The knees are what I am failing to incorporate as I should be... |
I've never found a pedal steel yet where the knee levers are in a comfortable position. Maybe my dimensions are unusual.  |
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Joe Gall
From:
DeLand, Florida
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Posted 28 Nov 2012 10:02 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Joe Gall wrote: |
| ...The knees are what I am failing to incorporate as I should be... |
I've never found a pedal steel yet where the knee levers are in a comfortable position. Maybe my dimensions are unusual. |
I actually modified the left two knee levers to make them "comfortable" for me. I had major issues with my MSA classic and the placement of the two left knee levers being too far to the right. When sitting under the steel and my left foot on the pedals, if I attempted to put my left knee between the left knee levers, this put my left leg on a 45* angle and just killed my left knee and was incredibly uncomfortable.
Now I just need to figure out exactly where, when & how to incorporate the knee levers into my playing. I have the far left knee figured out and know when & where to use it (this pulls the #1 string F#) and I love it! I just can't figure out when and where to raise and lower the E's and this seems like what everyone talks about the most!
Now am I the only one this happens to? It appears to me when looking at most PSG this is a common setup (where the left knee levers are not out towards the left side of the guitar like the right ones are).
What I did on my MSA was this. The outer most left knee lever I heated up and bent it on a 45* angle towards the left side of the guitar (from looking at it as you sit behind it) opposed to having it hanging straight down. This allows my left leg to move towards the outside without bending the string thus making my leg straight and my foot rest on the pedals and all is comfortable.
However, that left a massive gap from the other left knee lever. This knee lever would now be ever more further away so to speak than it was before if that makes sense so I had to come up with a way to "bring that inside left knee lever closer to my knee. So I came up with a "rig" of sorts and created a "U"-shaped loop that brought the knee lever over 3" closer to my knee. I simply attached that U-shaped loop with double sided tape thus making this modification easily reversible and temporary.
Not sure if any of this makes sense, I'll post a pic later and that will make it very clear. But I had no choice as I could simply could not use my left knee levers the way it was originally, it was so uncomfortable I hated sitting down and even trying to play.
_________________
Been at this damn thing for a few years now. Not so sure that I'm getting anywhere but it is fun. Sometimes. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 Nov 2012 4:04 pm
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| Joe Gall wrote: |
| ...This allows my left leg to move towards the outside without bending the string thus making my leg straight and my foot rest on the pedals and all is comfortable... |
Yes, I agree with almost everything you pointed out, but be careful not to rest your feet on the pedals when not depressing them. You can find yourself inadvertently putting just a small amount of pressure on a pedal and throwing yourself out of tune. |
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Joe Gall
From:
DeLand, Florida
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Posted 28 Nov 2012 5:09 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Joe Gall wrote: |
| ...This allows my left leg to move towards the outside without bending the string thus making my leg straight and my foot rest on the pedals and all is comfortable... |
Yes, I agree with almost everything you pointed out, but be careful not to rest your feet on the pedals when not depressing them. You can find yourself inadvertently putting just a small amount of pressure on a pedal and throwing yourself out of tune. |
That's one thing I have not had an issue with. Amazingly so...
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Been at this damn thing for a few years now. Not so sure that I'm getting anywhere but it is fun. Sometimes. |
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Gordon Ross
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 5 Dec 2012 9:33 am
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| Can anyone help this slow to learn man or point me in the right direction. Ive been playing lap and last 20 years pedal now have carter p.s. d10 3pedals 4 levers and 1 raiser I have been extemely greatful for the vids by Joe Bacus, but i ave never been able to obtain his copedant. joeif your out there could you guide me to your contact please or someone may know of his copedant and be kind enough to forward it along . my E mail adress is shoriesross@xtra.co.nz......... many thanks and happy plucking kind regards |
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Joe Gall
From:
DeLand, Florida
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Posted 6 Dec 2012 11:36 am
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Just learned something new today. "A" pedal only and lower the "Es" with the LKR. I have no idea exactly what that accomplishes but with the right group of strings in the right place at the right time, sure sounds great! LOL
I must sound like a complete idiot to people who actually know what they are doing but all I know is it seems to work in places and gives me something new to work with!
_________________
Been at this damn thing for a few years now. Not so sure that I'm getting anywhere but it is fun. Sometimes. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 12:32 pm
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Gordon I just have the standard Emmons set up only thing may be different is rkl raises both 1 & 7 only a 1/2 step to a G for a nice 7th sound. even though I have the option of having the split on the 6th string I myself dont use it, I find that to me and for my liking it gets in the way of better things and again just my opinion is all this is. and I also only lower my 2nd string 1/2 as well everything else is the standard way. now my back neck is a whole total new world if C6th player were to set down behind it they would be at a total loss of what was going on its E6th with the f# on top so I call it e6th/9 again a whole total different set up then what anyone else may have with pedal changes and all.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 5:45 pm
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| ...so, why do the C6 tunings not have two re-entrant strings like E9 ???????????? |
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