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Topic: Volume Pedal - Continuous Note? |
Kenneth Caine
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 6:42 pm |
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I was reading in the Winnie book tonight about a subject that I am weak in, the volume pedal and its proper use. I know its been called the expression pedal, lap steel players don't use it (I started on lap steel), swell generator and so forth. No matter, I'm still weak at it.
I read on page 53
A good exercise is to pick one note over and over, and using the volume pedal, extend the note in such a way that you only hear a continuous note, and not a series of notes.
Are you kidding me? How can this even be done? Can someone give me a clue as to a technique to make the continuous note? Does it need some amp setting like delay?
I suppose it can be done, since the book says it can be. Perhaps an example is Rusty Young playing the haunting steel at the beginning of Sweet Lovin on Poco's Good Feelin' To Know album. He plays and plays and seems like he has infinite sustain.
On a personal note when I hear this beginning I am transported in the way-back machine to the mid 70's. Sights, sounds, feelings all come flooding back, makes me yearn for those times again. What great memories courtesy the pedal steel. Ah the pedal steel, what an instrument! Amazing how music and bring out memories from the deep recesses in ones mind to almost instant recall. But I digress.
If you have never heard it, you can here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YahOOUNjI&list=ALBTKoXRg38BAGTUTvEKxj7n-Iub_EGsI5&index=9&feature=plpp_video |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 8:27 pm
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In places you can hear Rusty backing his VP off,hitting notes and bringing the VP up afterwards,so that the pick attack is inaudible.That technique can also be used to make faux backwards guitar sounds a la "Revolver".IMVHO what a volume pedal allows you to do is maintain a good spot in the stage mix,quiet when you're doing background figures for the lead singer,and authoritative when you solo.It also allows you to sustain a note,say at the end of a phrase by swelling the volume as that note fades.A good tool for getting more volume without picking harder as well as for subtle emphasis during a passage. 
EDIT:To get that one-note-sustaining-forever thing going easily you probably would need a lot of reverb plus a delay either in the F/X loop or between the VP and the front of the amp.That said,I'm sure somebody here will chime in and show us an even easier way  |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 5:47 am
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You need head-room on the amp. Turn it up. Pick the note with volume pedal off and bring the volume up slowly with your foot.
Most players play normally with the volume pedal somewhere in the middle of travel. This gives you more "gas" if you want to sustain notes with the pedal. Not neccessarily louder, although you can do that also, but more sustain.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 8:34 am
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I remember trying, and achieving, that sound.
The trick lay in picking softly: too softly for a novice to get a good tone. If the attack is too strong, attenuation and restoration of the attack just ain't happening.
I talked to my teacher who pointed out that it's good to have the control and the knack, but the effect in the exercise will probably NEVER come in handy on stage.
It's not just foot control, it's right hand control.
PS: I had no reverb, I learned through a fliptop Ampeg B15
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 8:56 am
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| I really like the way John Hughey seemed to pull notes and chords out of thin air and they stretch and bend this way and that, and we don't even hear that single pluck in there, but you just know he's done something to get it and keep it going. Volume pedal. A lot of sustain coming from some healthy gain on the amp helps this a lot, too. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 10:46 am
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| or you could just play a theremin! |
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Kevin Lichtsinn
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 11:39 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
I remember trying, and achieving, that sound.
The trick lay in picking softly: too softly for a novice to get a good tone. If the attack is too strong, attenuation and restoration of the attack just ain't happening.
I talked to my teacher who pointed out that it's good to have the control and the knack, but the effect in the exercise will probably NEVER come in handy on stage.
It's not just foot control, it's right hand control.
PS: I had no reverb, I learned through a fliptop Ampeg B15 |
Lane, so when I play at home (the only place I play for me and the grandkids), I should try picking lightly when appropriate? Actually, I have been messing around with that (seems to work)and wondered if I should be or just pickin' hard and doing it all with the VP. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 4:21 pm
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I'm not really fond of that technique. And like most players have already commented, I think its usefulness is pretty limited, so I personally wouldn't spend a lot of time on it. On the posted example, it just has some of that waaa-waaa-waaa character that sounds sort of "amateurish", to me. If he'd turned up the amp, I feel he could have gotten a nicer effect. But of course, if low headroom is a problem (like if you're using a low powered amp) then it is a possible solution to get longer sustain.
Listen to Buddy's "Blue Jade", or Curly's ride on the Wilburn's "Makin' Plans", and you begin to see just how much sustaaaaaaaaain is available on a decent steel and amp.
As for playing at home, I think you should normally pick with authority, and save the "gentle approach" for special songs and situations. Also, turn the amp up when playing at home, and learn to control your volume with the volume pedal (and not the amp volume). That's the secret to "endless sustain", IMHO.  |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 10:49 pm Another point of view to ponder...................
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Admittedly, I'm not as knowledgeable nor as experienced as many of the SGF experts here however,
I don't know WHO told you that lap steel players don't use foot volume pedals.
I've used one since the days of 'the DeArmond'. JERRY BYRD long recognized as a master steel guitarist and an early member of the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame, ALWAYS used a foot volume pedal, whether he was standing or sitting.
To hear how a real 'master' applies this tool, I'd suggest you Google...... JerryByrd-FanClub.com and thereafter go to Jerry's Music page. There are tons of songs there on which Jerry uses his volume pedal most tastefully, certainly not like an amatuer.
Some really melodic sounds can be had whether used while playing normally or with harmonics. Jerry is one of the most recognized users of the guitar mounted tone control.......
Far more valuable to the average steel player than the host of foot stomping, signal altering, affects boxes that can usually be seen on any bar room stage. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 11:57 pm
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| Kevin Lichtsinn wrote: |
| Lane Gray wrote: |
I remember trying, and achieving, that sound.
The trick lay in picking softly: too softly for a novice to get a good tone. If the attack is too strong, attenuation and restoration of the attack just ain't happening.
I talked to my teacher who pointed out that it's good to have the control and the knack, but the effect in the exercise will probably NEVER come in handy on stage.
It's not just foot control, it's right hand control.
PS: I had no reverb, I learned through a fliptop Ampeg B15 |
Lane, so when I play at home (the only place I play for me and the grandkids), I should try picking lightly when appropriate? Actually, I have been messing around with that (seems to work)and wondered if I should be or just pickin' hard and doing it all with the VP. |
I do not recommend picking softly for a novice. It is difficult to wrap the brain around simultaneously "soft" and "assertive" let alone get it out through your fingertips.
Picking with a tentative attack gives poor tone.
After you've learned to get a good tone out of your hands, THEN you can try to pick quietly.
One more thought on the exercise at the heart of the thread: I urge it for its own sake: for development of both hand and foot dynamics. You're likely never to need that lick, but you'll be glad for the control. It's waxing the car and painting the fence.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 4:42 am
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| I agree with Lane. At these early stages of development I am finding benefits derived from certain areas of practice having effects on other areas where I would not usually make an obvious link between the applications. |
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Kevin Lichtsinn
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 5:34 am
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Thanks!  I need lots of help! But hey its' coming along. I put Dwight Yoakum's rendition of "Dim Lights Think Smoke" into my computer and played along. Dang for fun. I love honky tonk!! I will go back to picking with authority. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 10:46 am
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It's also very necessary to get rid of any sources of hum in the guitar chord/effects chain. Otherwise the effect is lost in the noise...
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 4:43 pm
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| Ray Minich wrote: |
| It's also very necessary to get rid of any sources of hum in the guitar chord/effects chain. Otherwise the effect is lost in the noise... |
Spoken like a guy who's never successfully listened to the Opry through the static at 1100 miles from Nashville. 
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 5:22 pm
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I'm pretty sure this exersize is a beginner version of "keeping the volume consistant as the note decays".
It's an important technique.
It's OK to start with just one note.
It is perfectly fine to hear the string strike...
Just keep the volume steady from string strike to string strike as the note naturally decays.
Use a 4 beat count to start. Increase to an 8-count.
It's all about the volume pedal.
Try it. You'll quickly learn to play with alot more Amp Headroom, alot more Volume pedal control, and probably find your neutral position is around 40-50% on the V-ped, leaving alot of room to sustain the note(s).
Last edited by Pete Burak on 16 Nov 2012 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2012 11:40 am
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| Alan Akaka is always telling me "Turn up your volume, and pick gently". It's a hard lesson to learn, but the result is a lot more tone and expression. Jeff Newman taught me to keep my volume pedal half way engaged, and to work around that position. - Jack |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 16 Nov 2012 11:46 am
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| agreed! common sense taught me to work out of a central position and i didn't even have to pay newman anything! ha ha |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 16 Nov 2012 3:24 pm B-15
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Lane...
Ahhh the fliptop B-15N ...with the right speaker, one of the best amps for recording pedal steel...ever! Not so good for live gigs...but sweet in the studio.
Had one, sold it, want another...anybody got one?
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Ken Becker
From:
titusville, florida
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Posted 18 Nov 2012 1:09 am
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what a beautiful question,,,thanks,,ken,,,   |
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