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Topic: George L E66 pickups |
Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2012 7:25 am |
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I am enjoying my Remington Steelmaster D8 (22 1/2inch scale)with E66 pickups and would like to know about the Buddy Emmons tone from 1966 that these pickups are supposed to capture. I can't seem to find any info describing what this sound was (is) and why it became the focus for the E66 pickup which appears to be quite popular today. The George L website doesn't give any particular information on this.
I also have a Carter U12 pedal steel with a George L pickup (no markings on the pickup other than the "George L" signature)and the sound is noticeably different from the E66 equipped Steelmaster. I realize that pickup placement, scale length and body design all affect tone.
Although my non-pedal repertoire is primarily Hawaiian, I find that the tonal "edge" and complexity (to my ear) present in the E66 pickups has inspired me to play a lot more jazz and pop, including tunes I never thought I would play on steel guitar.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. |
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Larry Phleger
From:
DuBois, PA
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Posted 8 Nov 2012 8:10 am
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| It is my understanding that the E66 pickup is designed to emulate the Emmons pickup. The sound Buddy Emmons made famous in the 60's Came from the Emmons pickup on an Emmons push pull Guitar. That particular model of guitar has its own tonal characteristics. The sound Buddy created back then came from the Emmons pickup on the push pull guitar, PLAYED BY BUDDY EMMONS. |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2012 1:51 pm
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| Larry Phleger wrote: |
| It is my understanding that the E66 pickup is designed to emulate the Emmons pickup. The sound Buddy Emmons made famous in the 60's Came from the Emmons pickup on an Emmons push pull Guitar. That particular model of guitar has its own tonal characteristics. The sound Buddy created back then came from the Emmons pickup on the push pull guitar, PLAYED BY BUDDY EMMONS. |
Yes, and I wonder what that "sound" was, at least as much as words can describe it. How was it distinctive enough to have a pickup made for players today - the E66 - in an attempt to replicate that 1966 tone. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 9 Nov 2012 8:59 pm
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I have both the E-66 and the 10-1 George L pickups. The 10-1 has a clearer sound while the E66 has a nice growl to it when you boost the gain. My understanding is that the only difference is in the steel bar inside the pickup- one of them is steel and one of them is stainless steel (I forget which is which.) EDIT- It is the EON pickup with the stainless steel rails. My bad!
I have been looking for more information on the George L pickups- like when he first started making them. (I'm sure that some of the old-timers here remember when they became available.) It'd be interesting to see if he patented the design (I like reading through patent applications for musical instruments and pickups.)
One thing nice about the George L design is that with the steel bar instead of individual pole pieces they will work with any string spacing.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 10 Nov 2012 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 7:12 am
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Thanks for the info, Steve. Although you mention "growl" combined with gain, I assume that the 1966 Buddy Emmons pedal steel sound that inspired this pickup was a clean, non-distorted sound.
Played without distortion, the sound of the E66 on my Steelmaster seems to contain a "quack" reminiscent of the popular Stratocaster bridge/middle pickup combination. This gives me a surprisingly complex sound compared to the "pure" sounds of other steel guitar pickups including the George L that came with my Carter U12 pedal steel. Ideally, I would like to be able to compare the way this pickup would sound on another guitar just to see to what extent, if any, the scale length and body materials contribute to the sound of the E66.
Unfortunately the George L website doesn't offer any details. It just mentions the sounds "made famous" by this or that steel player (Emmons, Day, etc.) |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 7:40 am
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The difference is in the DC resistance of the pickup. Generally speaking, the higher the resistance, the darker the sound.
The E66 is the brightest of the lot at 17.5K ohms DC resistance. The 10-1 is wound to 19.5k.
Then there are the PF-I and TW series of GL's in between those at around 18.6K ohms.
The Eon version uses stainless steel rails and is said to have more bite than the E66 at the same DC resistance.
This from Geo. L's website. |
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Larry Phleger
From:
DuBois, PA
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 8:54 am
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| Frank, You mentioned that you have a Carter U12 with a George L pickup. Does your Carter have BCT (Body Contact Technology) BCT was used on the later models,and was designed to make the Carter sound more like an Emmons push pull. I too own a Carter U12. Mine is equipped with a TPPP pickup, but does not have BCT. Although it really sounds good, it still lacks the distinctive sound of my old Emmons pp. I would like to know if the Carter equipped with an E66 and BCT comes closer to the 60's Emmons sound. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 9:00 am
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I love the George L pickups. To me they have enough tone to be able to shape it anyway you want at the amp.
I have both the EON and the E66, and purchased them because they are "rail" type P/Us so I can have the string spacing I want.
I have not noticed very much difference in the two, of course they are installed in different guitars, so other considerations are at play.
I am very happy with the hum canceling effect, they are virtually noiseless.
Dom 
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 12:02 pm
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| Larry Phleger wrote: |
| Frank, You mentioned that you have a Carter U12 with a George L pickup. Does your Carter have BCT (Body Contact Technology) BCT was used on the later models,and was designed to make the Carter sound more like an Emmons push pull. I too own a Carter U12. Mine is equipped with a TPPP pickup, but does not have BCT. Although it really sounds good, it still lacks the distinctive sound of my old Emmons pp. I would like to know if the Carter equipped with an E66 and BCT comes closer to the 60's Emmons sound. |
Larry, my Carter U12 does have BCT and I think the sustain is impressive, but I have no way to compare it with a non-BCT Carter and I am trying to find out just what that magic Emmons sound was. I have some Emmons recordings from that era as well as ones by Maurice Anderson, Pete Drake, Curly Chalker and others and they all have great tone in my opinion, but I would still like a description of how the Emmons '66 tone was distinctive from the rest. I don't know if the E66 tone on my ash-bodied non-pedal Steelmaster is the same tone as the original '66 Emmons tone or if the structural differences between the Steelmaster and an Emmons PP overshadow the pickup's contribution to tone. |
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Larry Phleger
From:
DuBois, PA
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 3:32 pm
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| I think it is almost impossible to accurately describe a sound in words. Perhaps the best way t make a comparison is to listen to sound clips where the E66 is used on different guitars, and compare these to an original 60's Emmons pp. I have heard Buddy play his classic songs on modern guitars, and it is difficult for me to distinguish the differences between those and the original recordings. Others with a more discriminating ear may be more able to tell the difference. It would be interesting to hear an original Emmons single coil pickup on an ash body non pedal guitar and see how the sound differs between the two. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 4:02 pm
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| Larry Phleger wrote: |
| I think it is almost impossible to accurately describe a sound in words. |
I agree. I have two identical Melbert 8 string lap steels, one with an E-66 and the other with a 10-1, and they each have their distinctive sound- I like them both. I mentioned that the E-66 has a "growl" when overdriven. I really like the 10-1 for how it sounds clean (I think that the sound is a little thin when overdriven but that is just my own opinion.) The E-66 sounds great throughout the whole range from squeaky clean to downright nasty dirty.
As for the E-66 sounding a lot like the pickup on the Emmons steel that Buddy was playing in 1966, I really doubt that. I think that George Lewis was inspired by that sound when he created the E-66 but was not necessarily trying to copy it.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Don McClellan
From:
California/Thailand
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 1:45 am
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| Frank, Are the E66 pickups on your D8 Remington 8 string pickups or 10 string pickups? I thought George L did not make 8 string pickups. Don |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 4:52 am
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Don, they appear to be 10 string pickups. I believe makers of eight string steel guitars simply use the 10 string pickups from George L due to availability and the fact that there's no pickup pole placement issue due to the internal blade construction of the George L pickups.
The 10 string pickup looks fine under the eight strings and doesn't have the appearance of being "oversized." It merely protrudes a little bit beyond the first and eight strings. |
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Rockne Riddlebarger
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 9:39 am
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I play a D8 console steel equipped with the E-66 p'ups and they sound GREAT! One of the things I like about them is that sound like "steel guitar" and not like regular el. guitar p'ups. All they require from my end is a little tweak of the tone control. My bandmates and the audience commented on how good my steel sounded at our show last night....
_________________
www.facebook.com/speedingwest
www.facebook.com/rockneriddlebarger |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 11:05 am
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| Rockne Riddlebarger wrote: |
| I play a D8 console steel equipped with the E-66 p'ups and they sound GREAT! One of the things I like about them is that sound like "steel guitar" and not like regular el. guitar p'ups. All they require from my end is a little tweak of the tone control. My bandmates and the audience commented on how good my steel sounded at our show last night.... |
I agree that they have a great sound and can almost be made to sound almost vocal depending on how you "dig in" to certain notes and phrases. They do have a wide range from very soft to surprisingly biting and I find them to be very responsive to force of my picking and the portion of the string(s) where I pick. Bluesy numbers can be given a lot of "mood" by varying one's picking techniques.
Whether they sound like Buddy's '66 tone or not, they certainly have a sound of their own that has led me expand my range of steel guitar repertoire and have inspired good comments about the tone from my listening audience.
Thanks to all for your input. |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2019 11:53 am Which pickup do I have?
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| I bought my steel used - is there a way to determine which George L pickup I have? Nothing but the George L is written on it... |
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