What's wrong with a round nose bar on a dobro?

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I've tried using a Steven's bar on a dobro (and lap steel) and I can't play at all. I'm a pedal steel player who worked hard to learn to not pick up the bar, and other PSG techniques. The Steven's bar seems impossible to move up the strings without catching strings, although I've seen videos of people like Mike Aldridge, who seem to have no such problems.

I only dabble on the dobro (and lap steel), and am not sure if learning a whole new way to play is worth the effort. I sure don't intend to change the way I play PSG. What, if anything, am I missing by using a small round nose/bullet bar on a dobro?

Joel Bloom · Posted 7 Nov 2012 4:57 pm

Check out Greg Leisz on dobro and weissenborn on youtube for his bullet bar technique- doesn't appear he changes the bar from coming off his pedal steel

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

Hey Paul,
Try the Pete Grant Stevens bar, the end is rounded so it doesn't catch while skipping strings... I think it's the SP2 model. The other end is blunt for them pull-offs

The only thing I can think of that you may miss are pull-offs... they are not easy to do with a round bar...

Jay

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

If you are playing in the style of Josh Graves, Auldridge, Douglas and modern bluegrass/alt players the straight edge bar enables you to aggressively "hammer" on and "pull" off of a string. Combining that with banjo style rolls enables you to play in that rapid fire style with a great deal of volume.

There are also bars which are _more_ aggressive than the Stevens style, modeled after the Tipton bar, which are very much in favor these days.

h

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I just spent about the last 20 minutes playing my reso with the Stevens bar that I've had, and not used, for many years. I immediately notice a tone difference. With the Stevens bar it seems the fretted notes sound much closer in volume to the open string notes, which is a good thing. My reso sounds more like what I think it should sound like. It doesn't sound bad with the bullet bar, but it's noticeably different, in a good way, with the Stevens bar.

Then I started trying to do pull-offs and comparing the two bars at that. With the Stevens bar the open string note is loud and strong. I guess the sharp edge of the bar is effectively plucking the string as the bar is pulled back. When I use the round nose bar the open string note is much more difficult to get to sound, and it's much lower in volume. I suspect that with the round nose bar there isn't a solid plucking of the string.

I think I need to keep working with the Stevens bar.

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

Paul,

I googled a picture of the stevens bar. The ends are at a right angle to it's length without being carved back in shape.

You'll find with many of the dobro bars, the ends are rounded back or carved out at the middle to allow for lifting the bar on single string work and avoid touching the adjacent uphill string.

Take a side view look at the Shubb SP2 or SP3. You can see what I'm talking about.

It takes a while to get the hang of lifting the dobro bar. Now I'm not afraid to lift my bullet bar on my steel after spending time doing it on my dobro.

If you do go for a Shubb bar, look for the newer ones which are solid stainless. I wore out the chrome ones in months. The new stainless SP2 I use is holding up great.

I've not tried anything different but the dobro boys do have their special favorites.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

One of the best examples of the different styles between a pedal steel player on dobro and a dobro player, is Mike Auldridge and Lloyd Green both playing on the tune "Lloyd's Of Nashville" which is on one of Mike's earlier albums........

David Knutson · From: Cowichan Valley, Canada

I use the Shubb Pearse SP1 with a "bullet" tip at one end and square at the other. I find that I alternate which end I use depending on what style I'm playing. Granted I'm mostly acoustic on National Tri-cone and 6 & 7 string Dobros, but I often will switch the bar around in the middle of a tune depending upon whether I'm moving across the strings or doing hammer-ons & pull-offs.

Will Hart · From: St. Croix, Virgin Islands

I've been playing a steel bar on a reso for almost 40yrs. You can develop the same speed with hammer ons and pull offs. It's all a matter of practice. I also have to agree that the tone is better, and there is no change of feel for your left hand when you move to steel.

This just made me have several realizations. 1. I'm old now. 2. I've been playing for a long time. 3. I should be a hell of a lot better than I am.

Geez...

Billy Gilbert · From: Texas, USA

Brother Ozwald used a round bar and so does Bev King so it can work. Very Happy

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Cindy Cashdollar plays a round nose for lap steel but switches to Stevens-style for acoustic. Bob Brozman and Pete Grant are two prominent players who use round bars on resophonic. Here's Pete Grant using a round nose pedal steel bar on Dobro:

http://www.petegrant.com/banish_misfortune.html

I tried several Stevens-style bars and went back to my round nose bar. Pull-offs are indeed a bit harder but most every other technique is easier IMHO. I like to get open string chords with the nose of the bar when held vertically - can't do that with a Stevens.

The bottom line is whatever works and sounds good and doesn't hinder you from getting what sounds you want is just fine. There are no rules and nobody's keeping score.

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

" There are no rules and nobody's keeping score."

That's the plain and simple truth.

Kevin Lichtsinn · From: Minnesota, USA

I use a Shubb SP1 (I think that's the #) and I love it. I use the rounded end for slower playing and flip it around for fast pulloffs. Works great. Lots of practice helps! Of course, your bar of choice may vary. Smile

Steven Meyrich · From: Colorado, USA

Al Perkins used a round nose bar for resonator with the Nash Ramblers. He showed it to me at a workshop many years ago and he had hollowed out the core to make it lighter.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 9 Nov 2012 9:25 am

It really depends, not on the instrument, but the style of music you want to play. In Bluegrass music, the emphasis is on "hot licks" and for that you need a light, sharp edged tool that will allow you to get the hammer ons and pull offs at lightening speed.

In country music, the steel is more a chordal instrument, and having a heavy bar and the sustain that gives you becomes important.

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

My hat would be off to anyone that could do THIS with a round nose bar.

Of course it's no biggie if you just don't want to play in this style. I'm as much of an Oz fan as the next guy but, this is where it's at these days for the dobro.

Enjoy (or not).

h

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

This is also pretty sublime. A great demo of an awesome talent in the "modern" style. "The Old Rugged Cross".

h

Bill McCloskey · Posted 9 Nov 2012 10:52 am

"My hat would be off to anyone that could do THIS with a round nose bar. "

Don't let Hankey see that. He was using a capo. Smile

Mark Eaton · Posted 9 Nov 2012 1:46 pm

Alluding to what Jay wrote, it's not a contest - whatever works for you, go for it. But I really believe that if you become comfortable with a good dobro bar, you'll be happier down the line. It just takes some getting used to. I rarely use a Stevens Steel anymore (and I still have one of the good ones from the 70's when the plating was better). Out of the highly regarded players that go back decades before there were so many bar choices, the only one I can think of that has stuck with a Stevens as his main bar for most of his career is Mike Auldridge. My two favorite bars these days are both stainless steel, a Scheerhorn and an E.G. Smith. They both feel really dialed in when in my left hand, I feel like I have control of the situation. I've never felt that when using a pedal steel weight bullet bar when trying it on the dobro. The modern bars to me are a prime example of the phrase "building a better mousetrap." Tipton, Scheerhorn, Beard, Shubb, E.G. Smith and so on.

There is no shortage of fine dobro playing by pickers using bullet bars - of course! But I can almost always tell from the sound when someone is playing a dobro with a heavy bullet bar that is more commonly used for pedal steel. It's not that it sounds "better" or "worse," it's just different. In that difference, to my ears, the tone strikes me as being slightly "muffled" or subdued.

Typical dobro playing, not just in bluegrass, requires a lot of movement up and down the neck with the bar hand, quite a bit different than how the majority of players approach pedal steel with their bar hand.

I don't think country dobro is inherently any more "chordal" than bluegrass dobro. Howard supplied some good links of Rob Ickes and his amazing left hand in action. If you asked both Jerry Douglas and Rob what they have listened to over the years (and I have on different occasions) once they ran out of great dobro players to listen to, they'll both tell you the same thing: electric guitar players, particular jazz players (Rob is a huge fan of John Scofield), and they also have listened to a lot of jazz horn players. Horn lines are particularly well-suited to the dobro. Having great dexterity and control of the bar hand with a tool that feels really dialed in gives these two masters the ability to emulate some horn and jazz guitar feeling techniques, and utilize them in a number of musical genres.
_________________
Mark

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Tom Keller · From: Greeneville, TN, USA

IMHO, if your going to be playing any of the modern styles your going to need a non bullet nose bar(Stevens and beyond). For most of us mortals its extremely difficult to do the pull offs with a round nosed bar.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

In just the time since I started this thread (and tried the Stevens bar for the first time in well over 30 years), I can see the benefit of the sharp edge bar for certain things. I don't think I ever used the bar for more than a couple minutes until just last Wednesday. It was so awkward I would quickly give up on it and go back to the bullet bar. I now regret that.

I've exclusively used the Stevens bar since Wednesday, and have probably played for several hours total. I'm already hearing a bit of progress in my playing. Pull offs are much more definite, and I like the tone of the instrument better.

The Stevens bar does take a somewhat different technique. I have to either pick up the bar, or apply pressure on the back edge of the bar (lower strings) so the bar can be slide up, when trying to move up the strings. I still occasionally catch upper strings, but not as often. It's not as impossible as I once thought.

I guess one is never too old to learn something new, and one should not be afraid to try new techniques.

Thanks to all for your input and guidance.

Jim Konrad · From: The Great Black Swamp USA

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

It seems like learning to juggle, and then taking the next step; juggling with knives. Not that I know how to juggle.

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

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