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Topic: Perception of Tone |
James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2012 6:40 am |
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| I have read thru quite a few threads whereby some folks like particular amps , while others don't like the same amps .....The same goes for various instruments .....For example , I recieved a ZT Amps Club amp that I think sounds pretty darn good , and has plenty of power for it's size .....Some folks agree with me, while others say that it's a "dark" sounding amp and that it has no tone .....I'm wondering if the reason for the dicrepency in findings is related to hearing issues of our pedal steel playing commuity or ?????........ None of us are getting any younger and I'm wondering if actual hearing loss plays a part in how we each percieve the tone of an instrument, or amplifier ... I put this thread on this part of the forum since it pertains a lot to amplifiers and the tones they produce......What are your thoughts ? .......Thanks, Jim |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 Nov 2012 7:12 am
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As you stated its all personal preference. In amps some "must have" tubes and others are perfectly happy with solid state. Within the tube or solid state amps, there are those that feel a certain brand is best for their use. Someone else will feel a different amp is best for their use. Neither are wrong.
Guitars and pickups are the same.
Just go with what you think is right for you. Don't let anyone sway you to something else, and especially the big name steeler's. You will never get the exact same tone that, for example Paul Franklin gets or Buddy Emmons gets, etc. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2012 10:24 am
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Perceived tone is a complex issue, for sure. I appreciate many of the live and recorded tones I hear from various players, but I seem to always move myself toward a fat, round warm sound, that still has clarity and punch.
I've spent hundreds of hours over the years with various bits of gear dialing in the "sound" of a favorite record, and after playing with it a short time, I find myself invariably "adjusting" it toward what sounds better to me, and it ends up being close to "my sound".
Bear in mind that other factors can really affect your tone. Years ago I was playing an Emmons PP through a tube amp, and got a new Webb. It sounded glorious to me, but I immediately starting hearing complaints that my tone was too "'brash", harsh, bright, etc. A real conundrum, as I just LOVED the sound of that amp on stage. Eventually I decided that the amp had some kind of beaming characteristic that I wasn't aware of, and I dialed the upper mids back more than I wanted, and, Voila, everybody was happy again.
It's a constant search.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 5 Nov 2012 10:54 am
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Tone is a very complex subject for me. When I hear others talk about tone, they seem to neglect the three dimensional aspect of it--the movement of air. To me, that is the most important part. I have to feel and hear that there is something physical/tangible going on. Often, with amps that I don't like, I've found the sound to be lifeless and uninspiring--I think in most cases it's a mismatch of amp and speaker.
This is also one of the reasons I don't like amps with a master volume set up or using any kind of attenuation on an amp. When the gain is increased at a lower volume, it just kills all dynamics and defeats the moving of air.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2012 11:30 am
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Thanks guys .....All very interesting comments .....
Mark ,
Interesting comment concerning what your tone is on stage , and bow it turned less than appealing out in the audience
I listen to a lot of steelers that have a very brash tone ....I very biting sharp tone that does nothing for me ......Then I can remember listenning to John Hughey in CT. for the first time , and how he gave me chills with his soft, sweet tone !!....RIP John !!.....
Mike ,
I am one who HAS to have that ear/hand / feel connection ......It's all got to be there .... When it's there , you know it !!!......You just sit there and can't stop smiling , and for me , it makes me play my best , and makes it easier to do so ...I can remember dong a gig , and everything just lined up right ....The room size , the amount of people , the night .....It was all there , and I played licks that had all my band mates looking at me in amazement !!......Heck , I amazed myself !!.....
Jack,
I think we all have our own tone that we really enjoy the most ..... I also agree that everyone is different , and that variety IS the spaice of life ..... Tone will always be MINE !!.....Licks and runs, and technique , I will pick up here and there from others and then form my own performance ......Thanks again guys....Jim |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 6 Nov 2012 11:00 am
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I've found, that, over the years, I've needed to add a little more treble to my sound. I guess playing too loud and too many gunshots have had an effect on my hearing. Being as cautious as one can be doesn't always work, I guess. So, having said that, I suppose I've changed my tone as percieved by others. To me, it sounds right, but, to others it probably sounds shriller or more biting. I haven't gotten any complaints from anyone, so, I guess it's acceptable. But, I know it's different from my original settings.
There are so many variables affecting tone, that, it really becomes a moot point, in the long run. As long as I'm and the rest of us are happy with our sound, that's all that matters. Consistency is rewarding, but, not always attainable given the variables we have to deal with. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2012 2:53 pm
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| No. |
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Jerry Humphries
From:
Jasper, AL.
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Posted 7 Nov 2012 7:09 pm
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Heres what i think perception of tone is: When you play a passage you may have played hundreds of times and that 1 or a few times the hairs on your arms stand up, you know you have everything dialed in.   |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Nov 2012 1:42 pm
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Players' perception of tone varies greatly over time. Some evidence of this is all the people who sold their old guitars to get something that sounded and played better...only to discover 10-20 years later that the one they got rid of was better than anything they've tried since.
Most players possess good enough gear to get a good sound and tone. But, a problem can start when a player becomes fixated on tone above all else. I can understand a pro like Lloyd Green or Paul Franklin obsessing about tone, but I feel too many players with limited skills spend too much time looking for "tone", when they should be boning up on their playing skills.
IMHO, all the tone in the world is useless if you're playing skills aren't very good. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 9:41 am
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I totally agree with Donny. As you age your hearing will too; that's life. As you sit in front of loud amps for years, it will go faster.
Thanx,
Jim |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 11 Nov 2012 11:53 am
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| ...what..?? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Nov 2012 2:35 pm
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One other thing to consider is how the "popular" tone changes with time. The thin, cutting '60s sounds from Emmons, Green, Brumley, and Myrick are nothing like their tones from 20-25 years later. In the '60s, steels were sharp and twangy and guitars were full-fat sounding (well, except for Don Rich  ). Fast forward 20-25 years and the guitars became far more twangy and the steels became full-fat sounding.
Goes to show that the only real constant is change.  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 8:01 am
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Having just spent the weekend with that Twin, I'm starting to think the big step backwards was the solid states and their harsh mids that need attenuation. The tubes let the mids breathe and sound warm. That amp sounds sweet
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 2:13 pm
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"One other thing to consider is how the "popular" tone changes with time. The thin, cutting '60s sounds from Emmons, Green, Brumley, and Myrick are nothing like their tones from 20-25 years later. In the '60s, steels were sharp and twangy and guitars were full-fat sounding (well, except for Don Rich ). Fast forward 20-25 years and the guitars became far more twangy and the steels became full-fat sounding. "
Hi Donny,
Funny you mention this .....I was JUST talking about this very statement the other day with a buddy of mine ...... I have to agree that the only contant today IS change !!...... ......Jim |
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