12 String Universal players!

Bill Atwood · From: Kingsland, TX. USA * R.I.P.

After several months of working on my new 12 string U, I have come to the conclusion that there is advantage to having the string 4&8 knee changes on the right rather than the left. The builder of my guitar advised me that the left knee was "Standard" on the universal as well as a standard 10 string E9. I suspect that the majority of Universal players have the E changes on the right knee.
Let's conduct a straw poll of as amny universal players that will respond. Which knee do you have the E changes on? I'm curious, do any of you lower on the RKR and raise LKL?
I'll compile the response later on this thread. Thanks for your input.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Lower E's on RKR.
Raise E's on LKL.

I ordered my first S12U, a Black Emmons push-pull, with Jeff Newmans S12U copedant (circa 1981), and started with his course "B6th Universal-Book 1", which shows the copedant as such.

LKV lowers B to Bb.
RKL brings 2 and 9 to D's.
No LKR.

I think he has changed it a little since then, adding D# to C# (string 2) to the E to Eb lever for B6th.

Dennis Boyd · From: Suisun City, CA USA

I have both of my E-string levers on the left which is how Sierra sets up the Universal (LKL E-F, LKR E-D#). I place these levers forward and as close together as possible for quick engagement.

Some people like to have them on separate knees so that the change from one to the other is immediate and smooth. This makes sense, but I like having the use of an extra knee lever by placing the E-string levers on the same knee.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I've played Sierras that were set up that way, and can see the advantage (especially if that is what you are already used to).
On the Sierra S12U's I've seen that lower E's on LKR you can lock the E's to Eb and flip the lever up out of the way.
Good thinking!

Richard Gonzales · From: Davidson, NC USA

Raise E's LKR, Lower E's RKR using a Day setup.

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

I raise E's LKL and lower E's RKL.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

on my U12 I have the same as Mr Malone, which is really different than they were on my 10 Str E9 MSA or are on my 10 Str E9 on the ZB. both E raises and lowers are on the left knee on the 10 stringer.
(current) Zum U12, w Emmons ABC pedals: lkl=raise, rkl = lower
(current)ZB, w/Emmons ABC pedals: lkl = raise lkr= lower
(1974-1997) MSA, w/Emmons ABC pedals: lkl = lower lkr= raise

21st Century Schizoid Man

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 06 November 2002 at 02:40 PM.]

Randy Pettit · From: North Texas USA

Lower E's on RKR; raise E's on LKL. I like the advantage of having no other obligation for my left leg, other than working pedals 4-7, when lowering the E's.

mickd · From: london,england

I have the Sierra S12 standard - LKL E-F, LKR E-D#. I have tried playing C6th mode without using the lock and yes, it is awkward holding down the LKR while reaching pedals 6&7, but I would hate to change now I've got used to this setup..

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

RKR= Ebs RKL= Fs

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Malone setup.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Lower on RKR, raise on RKL,
I've been thinking lately that it might be useful to move the raise to LKL, and free up the RKL for a change the would apply to the B6th.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

My raise is on my LKL, and my lower is LKR. I tried putting the changes on different knees, but decided that I preferred them on the same knee.

I also have a second LKL that raises the 4th string to F#.

There really is no right or wrong you know. It's purely a matter of personal preference.

Jimmy Dale · From: Ripley, W.Va

Right Knee Right and Left Knee Left. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

both on the left knee

norm mcdaniel · From: waco tx

Both of my e changes are on my left knee. I have a Sierra U-12 with a lock that I dont use much but I love that Sierra.
Norm McDaniel
Sierra U-12
Pro-fex 11
Dpc 750 &2 Peavey B.W.s

Robert Todd · From: Atlanta, Georgia USA

I raise on lkl and lower on rkr. I tried having both changes on my left knee, but could never et a smooth whole tone lower (I'd always hear the half tone stop) when I had them there. Now I can make that change sound just as smooth as the A pedal

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I raise my E's to F on the LLK and lower the low E to C# on my extended E9-E6, as Bobby Lee does.

I lower my E's to D# on the RRK, It gives more freedom to my left leg, for one thing.

I also would not do without my 9th string C# and pull it to a D on a knee lever, when I need it.

Here is my basic tuning now on my S12: I get the middle F# with a knee lever.

F#
D#
G#
E
C#
B
G#
E
C#
B
G#
E

It is a little different but it works for my style of playing........al

Gord Cole · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Lower=RKL
Raise=LKL

Regards.
--Gord

Danny Naccarato · From: Burleson, Texas

As a U-12 player, mine is RKL & RKR, raise & lower respectively. Aside from other reasons for placing here, I definitely feel that the E raise & lower should be on the same knee, as you never use them together.

Gary Sill · From: Mt. Zion, IL, USA

LKL = E to F and RKL = E to E flat

john buffington · From: Owasso OK - USA

LKL = E's to F
RKL = E's to Eb

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

RKR: E-Eb
LKL: E-F
(For that extra (A+B)ish move!)

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

"I definitely feel that the E raise & lower should be on the same knee, as you never use them together."

Interesting how we all come from different angles on this type of stuff!

I use these levers together all the time when playing out of the A+F position (F=E's raised to F).
I also have E to F# on a lever (RKL) which, combined with the other changes on that string, gives me a good deal of motion (my current setup has string 4(E) going from D to F#).
Fun Stuff!

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 08 November 2002 at 12:56 PM.]

Bill Atwood · From: Kingsland, TX. USA * R.I.P.

"Fun Stuff" und very interesting too! Also somewhat confusing!
I will compile the responses this evening and post a recap in the morning.
Right now, I am totally confused and will just leave my changes as they are until I can see "THE Light"

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