Dead Spots on Fishman Aura Reso Pickup

Tim Tweedale · From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Hi. I was recently dismayed to find that my 'D' string barely registers on my fishman Nashville reso pickup. Has anyone else had difficulty with this issue?

-Tim

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I've seen reports of this on the Reso-Nation forum. If the person who installed the pickup is unable to help, I'd suggest you contact Fishman for resolution.
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Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

my middle D string is significantly weaker than the rest of my strings. I've just about given up on the JD pickup. This is the second one I've put in that had one string weaker than the rest.
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Mark Eaton · Posted 30 Oct 2012 12:58 am

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Well, how about on Resohangout.com then?
You do have to register to get on the Reso-Nation website, true. I can't do anything about that.
My advice still holds true. Talk to the installer or Fishman to see what can be done to resolve the problem. There are many satisfied people who are not experiencing such a problem.
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Mark Eaton · Posted 30 Oct 2012 8:57 am

Brad, of course your advice still holds true, the only reason I brought it up is that I wasn't sure if you were aware when you send non-members over to Reso-Nation that they can only see the first post of a thread. If they're confused by this when they click on over there, I'm letting them know what the deal is, that's all.

There is some information on this subject on reso hangout, but perhaps not to the extent that there is on Reso-Nation.

Folks, if you're really serious about the dobro then it would be a good idea to become a member of Reso-Nation. This Fishman Nashville pickup stuff has been discussed on that forum ad infinitum. There has been some discussion here on the SGF in the past, but not to the level of the other site.

b0b does a great job in covering all the bases in the steel guitar world here on the SGF, but it's hardcore dobro 24/7 on Reso-Nation, with a little lap steel and weissenborn thrown in once in awhile. It's a $6 a year minimum donation.

Of course many of us are members of both forums.

As far as problems with the Fishman Nashville pickup and uneven sound across all the strings, though even with proper installation the overall percentage might be small, and I have zero data to support this - it seems like there are too many of these pickups out there percentage-wise that are having issues. The dobro has gained considerably in popularity over the past 10 or 12 years, but it's still a pretty dinky little corner of the acoustic guitar world overall. You just don't hear about this sort of thing very often when it comes to the newer flattop acoustic guitar pickups.

I think the spider bridge resonator guitar is just a more difficult beast to tame when it comes to amplification. As in the computer software world, I'm hoping that as Larry Fishman, Paul Beard, etc. continue to see problems surface with these things that at some point we'll see a "version 2.0"

I'll tell you what, I'm the last guy in this world that would attempt to install one on my own!
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I have a new Gretsch resonator with the Nashville series pickup. I don't notice any problems with strings not being as loud as others. I'm real new to the world of resonators (about two weeks), but so far I'm very pleased with the guitar and it's performance when amplified.

I hesitate to join a resonator forum that is going to make me unsatisfied with my current equipment. Ignorance is bliss.

Mark Eaton · Posted 30 Oct 2012 9:53 am

Paul, there's a lot of good stuff over there that you would enjoy - it's not all about ragging on equipment and making yourself dissatisfied.

And yes, there's the GAS factor - a lot of really nice dobros come up for sale over there that you don't see in the classifieds here, and it's torture not to be able to act on some of those to add to the stable.

The new Gretsch plugged in sounds pretty decent, and the Gretsch people - wherever they are - seem to have done a proper job on the pickup installation, and that's pretty impressive for a $500 guitar. Of the handful of reports I've heard so far including my own test drive at a store here in Santa Rosa, players have said that the pickup sounds pretty even across the strings.

Not to hijack the thread too badly (but Paul brought it up so I'm only taking half credit), have you acquired the Fishman Jerry Douglas Aura pedal yet to go with your new Gretsch?
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Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

I installed the Nashville pickup in my Goldtone Beard and am having no problems. My guess is that it is either and installation problem or a bad pickup.
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Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

I had mine set up at Beard Guitars and it has worked perfectly for 2 years. But a friend had his installed there and it was weak on the high strings. We took it back down when I went down to order my new reso and it seemed to be fine when they readjusted it, but by the time he got it back home, it didn't work. Paul said there had been some issues with some of them, so when I go down to pick the guitar up, we'll take it back down and they will replace it. Supposedly, the problem has been fixed now, and there shouldn't be any more bad ones. I couldn't be any happier with mine.

Mark Eaton · Posted 30 Oct 2012 11:07 am

Ron Landis · From: Arkansas, USA

I don't like pickups on resonators or mandolins and banjos for that matter. The just don't capture the true tone of the instruments IMO. For about $125, I bought a quality lavalier microphone like they use on TV as lapel microphones, and put it right inside the instrument. It's small enough to fit through one of the holes in a resonator cover. Mine is an Audio-Technica and is powered from a single AA battery.

Bill Mollenhauer · From: New Jersey, USA

For what its worth.

I have one guitar with a split bridge Fishman pickup and and another one with a regular guitar under bridge pickup. Both are cheap Asian guitars. I can tell very little difference between the two. The under bridge pickup cost 12$ on ebay.

The piece of wood has a slot cut into it to hold the the under bridge pickup against the spider. Two tie wraps snug the pickup/wood against the spider.

Since dont know much about pickup construction I can only surmise it is similar in construction to the two I have. The under bridge pickup has 6 distinct spots on it corresponding to guitar string spacing. I believe there is a piece of piezo material under each string and these are tied together to go to the output cable. I think one of the piezo pieces is bad.

Bill

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

If you need to play resonator guitar in high volume settings and share the stage with telecasters and drum kits I am not aware of any solution other then the Fishman Nashville (sometimes referred to as the Jerry Douglas) pickup and the optional "Jerry Douglas" Aura pedal. It sounds remarkable. No, because of potential feedback issues, microphones just don't work is those applications.

The issues with the pickup itself are known and highly variable:

+ It is expensive (more so with the pedal and "special" spider)

+ May/May not alter the acoustic properties of guitar. (one of the great debates in reso-land)

+ It does not tolerate poor installation at all. example. A small error in slotting can render the pickup unbalanced or completely non-functional. Incorrect action may render similar problems.

+ It does not tolerate alternate tunings. If it is set up for open G and you tune down to D with a G set you risk balance issues.

+ There are at least a small number of documented failures out of the box.

All the above being said. If you need it..you need it and you'll get your guitar to one of maybe a dozen luthiers (imho) that know how to install and can spot issues before the guitar is shipped back to you.

It is what it is until Ver.2 is shipped and hopefully a 7/8 string version.

My .02 and based on my somewhat unique past perspective and current experience..

Cheers

h
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Mark Eaton · Posted 30 Oct 2012 2:09 pm

Bill, it would be cool to hear an A/B comparison between the Fishman and the $12 eBay pickup.

Ron, I guess you really don't like pickups on acoustic instruments since your reply posted four times! Wink

Do you play your dobro in mixed acoustic/electric scenarios?

I think the main reason for anyone to have the Fishman installed is for "mixed" band situations, where the dobro might be competing with electric guitars, drum kits, etc. Though Jerry Douglas uses the Fishman full-time now, even with Alison Krauss & Union Station and acoustic only instruments.

Historically microphones cause feedback problems and sound "bleeding" for dobros in mixed bands with floor wedges, amps, etc., but the earlier generation reso pickups did as well.
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Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

SO what is the consensus regarding the best application of the pickup/Aura pedal ??
Going from the Aura into an amp (such as the Fishman loudbox)... or Aura to DI to FOH ?? or are both methods equally good ?
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Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Depending on the venue I have used both. If there is a "real" FOH setup I'll use a Loudbox Artist as a stage monitor and offer a FOH feed frim the amp or from a Fishman Pro Platinum eq/DI ahead of the amp.

h

Eugene Cole · From: near Washington Grove, MD, USA

Back in the late 70's or perhaps the early 80's I recall someone had taken one of the then-popular Barcus Berry guitar transducers and attached it to the bottom side of the cone. And I think that I saw not too many years ago a transducer that was fitted to a circle lug between the nut and the cone (also on the bottom side of the cone). Do any of you recall these setups? What were the pros and cons of these pickups?

I have a Don Lace Pickup for my 10-strig which is still in the box; I suppose I should see if it works as I was concerned that it would not be wide enough to pickup all of the strings.
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Bill Mollenhauer · From: New Jersey, USA

Mark Eaton

Sorry but wouldnt know how to post an A/B comparison or set one up. I dont think a comparison would be valid anyway. They are different guitars. One has a thinner top, one has a Quarterman cone, one a Smith and Young cone. The amount that the screw has been tighten will have an effect. Each guitar has a really different sound to begin with. To me the output of the Fishman is slightly more but easily taken care of with the amp and to me not worth the cost of the Fishman.

The best way to compare is to put one of these under bridge pickups on a Fishman equipped reso and do the comparison. All you need is the pickup, a piece of 1/4 inch wood and a utility knife to cut the slot. and it is easily reversed.

For others

If you are going to put the pickup under the cone, between the cone, or even on the cone you are going to effect the sound you get by where you place it. All these ways are moving the pickup farther away from the vibrating strings. You will get the most valid comparison and maybe a better sound by putting the pickup directly on the bridge right next to the Fishman.

Bill

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Thanks Howard, much appreciated
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Peter Jacobs · From: Northern Virginia

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

yeah, that's a cool idea. i'd love to hear how it sounds on my dobro.

here's the question i have, being a steel player with just occassional dobro opportunities in an electric band. what did rusty young use back in the early poco days on stage. it always had a real dobro sound to me at good volume. i've never heard anyone address this! ...and this was way before lots of modern technology. ..actually, it was before i'd heard of jerry douglas!

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Had rehearsal last night with a loud country rock band: Two teles, bass and loud rock drummer.) Even rehearsals are loud. Not sure why that is.

The Gretsch reso, with a JD pedal and loudbox, running a line out to a high end PA, sounded great. (Of course, my beginner licks are pretty suspect.)

I have a gig Saturday night in a 1000 person hall with a great PA and a professional soundman. That should be the final test, but so far, this is a great rig!!

PS: Absolutely no dead spots. Fairly equal volume on all strings.

Mark Eaton · Posted 31 Oct 2012 12:13 pm

Chris, in the early days of Poco, nobody had heard of Jerry Douglas yet because he was still in junior high or just entered high school in Ohio, and he'd play in his dad's weekend 'grass band around the region being snuck into the over 21 bars - those folks got see what the deal was, probably a little like watching Buster Posey swing a bat for his high school team.

I really don't know what Rusty used but I have read in the past that he put some kind of a humbucker on his dobro and ran it through a wah pedal?

Hey Paul, I found a post from Jerry Douglas from way back in 2008. It was originally posted on his forum, but I copied-and-pasted it to Reso-Nation. I was thinking you'd benefit from this one with your upcoming gig.

And you really need to join Reso-Nation, there are a lot of gems on that forum like this one. Smile

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Thank you Mark for the JD article. I started a new thread on the issue of controlling stage volume, as this thread is drifting.

I don't get how JD varies his volume through out a song using the volume control on the JD pedal. Having to pull your right arm out from the under-strap position, and reach to the JD pedal to adjust the volume is not very efficient.

If the pedal is on the top of the amp, which is what I'm currently doing, it's somewhat better than if the pedal is on the floor, but still far from ideal.

Reaching for the pedal with the left arm adds the possibility that you might drop your tone bar in the heat of the moment (i.e., just before a solo).

And having to stand right near the amp, so the pedal is nearby, increases the feedback potential.

There has to be something that I'm overlooking.

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