Tone King vs Allen

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I'll admit to have given this a lot of thought already.. I play PSG and 6 string in a band and I want to bring just one amp that i can carry in one hand to the gig. I am convinced that it should be 35-40 watts in a 1X12" enclosure. I don't wanna spend much more than $1500 if I can help it. I love fender tube amps, but a twin is just too much and a deluxe isn't quite enough. I'd love a half a twin or a double deluxe Very Happy

I'm looking at a Tone King Meteor II for sale used locally, it's 4 6V6's and has a 20watt/40watt switch, also looking at an Allen Accomplice 1X12 with 2 6L6's, also 40 watts. Can anyone offer opinions on either amp or suggest a 3rd to consider? The Little Walter and Milkman amps are to much to spend for me at this time.
Thanks!

Thomas Butler · From: Robbinsdale, MN

Find a Fender Vibrolux.
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LDG and a Twin Reverb - what more does a guy need?

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

Or a Pro Reverb, though the weight isn't much better than a twin.

KP

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

Half a Twin is a Super Reverb if you put a solid state rectifier in there

does not solve the weight problem though

Tube amps are heavy - no way to get around it, other than to have 2 lightweight amps

Transformers are made of iron, unfortunately!

I know that Dave Zirbel has found a good amp for his needs - its a Deluxe Reverb with a Bandmaster output transformer wired in, 6L6s, and higher plate voltage to up the wattage. That amp probably weighs under 40 pounds and has plenty of juice
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Milkmansound.com

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

I have three of the 1954 Bassman clones left. Not much difference in weight compared to a Nashville 112. Makes a great steel amps as well

Amp specs:
Power output: Approximately 38 watts RMS into a 2 ohm load
Cabinet dimensions: 23 1/2"(W) x 22 5/8"(H) x 10 1/2"(D)
Covering: Brown Stripe Coated Tweed, Oxblood w/ Stripe Grill Cloth
Hardware: Large Brown leather Handle, Chrome Glides...
Weight: 44bs
Tubes: 1 5U4GB Rectifier tube Power: 2 x 6L6GC JJ Telsa Preamp: 3 x 12AY7
(EH tubes) and 1 x ECC83/12AX7 (JJ Telsa)
Speakers: 4 x Jensen P10R with bell covers on lower 2 speakers

Jeff Keyton · From: Texas, USA

I had an accomplice it twas a great guitar amp, but would not cut it for a pedal steel amp (although for lapsteel it'd sound good). Got rid of it and ended up with a 71 Twin, it's easier to get dirt if needed with a pedal than it is to get loud and clean from an amp that runs out of headroom. SF Twins can always be found and there's alot of of options for neo speakers out there right now to take care of weight issues. Plus you get the dual channel of a Twin which the Accomplice did not have. A twin with a neo 15 is comparable in weight and size to the Allen with a 15 and neither of them are that much bigger than a Deluxe Reverb. I've heard one of the Fox amps in person and it sounded great.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Billy Phelps, who played for Carter at the shows, told me he played Ken Metcalf's Fox amp for steel when they played together. Billy said he had nothing in his stable of amps that came close to the 4x10 Bassman clone for steel. That rare 1954 prototype amp circuit was pretty unique. Closer to a Standel class A tube amp tone than any Fender amp I ever heard. Clean to top for sure. If ever I was top build amops again, it would be that amps for sure. However retirement at the end of this year is looking better all the time!

If I were to build them now they would be closer to $2400.00. Prices have risen on everything. The last three I have are priced at $1899.00 shipped. I starrted selling them over 3 years ago at $1999.00 plus shipping. If someone wants a nice vintage, boutique amp at an affordable price, this is it for sure.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I'm pretty excited about the tone king, I have to talk my friend into selling it. If that doesn't work out, i'll look further into Alen and other boutique makers or an actual old fender. I'm currently using an old Sano 25w 1X12 with 2 6L6's for outputs, it's plenty loud for this band, stays clean enough for most gigs. I am only looking for something with a touch more headroom and a smoother top end, but see no need to stray from a single 12" enclosure, or jump up to 85 watts, otherwise I would most likely just get a showman head and use either my 1X15" or my 1X12" cab. I have a Webb 614 head that's great for any steel only gig I get, i don't care for guitar through it, and I find by the time I turn it up at all for this particular band, it's already too loud. I also have a couple 15-20 watt amps that i love for guitar, and aren't usable for steel. The search continues. Sad

Anybody ever re-baffled a Vibrolux to take a single 12" Anyone have anything good to say about a Bandmaster for Steel?

Steven Finley · From: California, USA

Ken,your amps a masterpiece,Iam with a signed artist
how about an endorcement? hey it dosnt hurt to ask.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Steve, I am honored by that for certain. However I am retiring at the end of the year. These are the last three of our production amps. No more plans to produce amps for sale after the end of the year.

LARRY COLE · From: LANCASTER, OHIO, USA

I have an Allen Accomplice that I built a year or so ago. It is the best sounding guitar amp that I have played in my 50 years of playing. I got the upgraded transformer and it is 42 watts w/6L6s and 22 w/6V6s. It is like the best sounding Fender ever. It sounds great for steel too. Rick Johnson build the cab. I got it big enough to fit a 15 or 2X10s but it has a 12. Dave Allen recommended the Eminence Red, White and Blues speaker and it sounds great. I get a lot of compliments on the sound of it. It is like half of a Twin. I put an old Telefunkin 12ax7 in the preamp section and it got even better.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

You can get lucky and pick up one of the Fender early 80s Paul Rivera designed amps pretty cheap ($500 or so). The Concert is good, and is about 60 watts.

The drive channel on them is really miserable, but the clean channel is pretty nice.

I just saw a modified Bassman 50 on craigslist in Seattle for $600, it had a blond cabinet and a weber california 15. That might be nice. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/msg/3331287433.html

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I have the tone king and I am going try it at practice tonight. Man, this thing is BRIGHT. Even with the bright switch off, and the tone on the drive channel all the way down, it's a little too bright for my tastes. That being said, it sounds FANTASTIC. Great string separation, clarity across the range. Reverb is cool too. We'll see how it stands up after tonight. That Bassman looks interesting, Thanks for the tip Dan! I must say i am leery or fender reissue amps.....
I also bought a canadian made soundmaster PA head that my tech has and is going to make sound 'cool' for PSG. It is 70 watts on 4 807 output tubes.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Hi Olie,

The early 80s Fenders aren't reissues, they are the last of the point to point, all tube Fenders. I think they compare pretty well with an Allen.

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

the 80's "Rivera" era amps are about halfway between a Reissue and vintage Fender.

yes, they are well built hand wired point to point etc... however, there are a lot of strange things happening circuit wise which really affect the tone in a negative way.

that said, any good tech should be able to straighten out the flaws in that series of amps and get you back on track
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Milkmansound.com

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I decided to pass on the Tone King. It was too 'sterile' sounding, lacked any low mids, no 'warmth'. Sounded better for guitar than pedal steel. I'm going to check out that bassman conversion this weekend if it hasn't sold before then. Out of curiosity, Tim and Dan, how can you tell this was/is an 80's rivera amp? Thanks!

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

because "Bassman 50" is a Rivera designed amp Smile

A lot of amps are going to be too bright for pedal steel. That is one of the reasons I set out to design an amp *specifically* for pedal steel. A guitar amp is not a steel amp - and a guitar player is not a steel player.

I know its a small market - and guitar players think I am nuts - but I can say, as a pedal steel player, that having an amp designed exclusively for pedal steel is important and I thank you for pointing out one more reason why.

I wish I could budge on my prices but I have very slim margins - I want to get as high quality an amp out there as possible without compromise, and unfortunately at these small quantities that costs money.
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Milkmansound.com

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I may be asking too much to get an amp that sounds great for both PSG and guitar. This Sano amp is so close to perfect for both that it seems like there outta be something just that little bit better.
I don't begrudge you your prices, Tim, they're just beyond my reach at the moment, and like you said, they're designed for pedal steel. I love my Webb for PSG, totally satisfied. Hate it for guitar. I just don't want to bring 2 amps to the gig if I can help it. There may be no way around it.

Tommy Boswell · From: Virginia, USA

Any opinions on the Bassman 70 head? I like mine OK, but never having owned other big tube amps, I don't know how it compares.

Fred Rogan · From: Birmingham, AL USA

I have an Allen Amp Encore (2x10 w/40 watts) and while it is mostly my guitar amp, I have played PSG through it and with some EQ tweaking, it sounded great. They are Fender clones but much better built and much more powerful EQ.
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Show Pro SD10 guitars
Milkman Amps

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Speaking of bassmans, I just sent Ken Fox a check for the rebuilt '66/'68 he has listed for sale here. Also have a SMS Earth Drive in the mail, and I am headed to pick up a Jensen Neo 12-100 for a closed back cab I have. I have high hopes for this set up. It'll be just over half the cost of the boutique amps I was looking at. Fingers crossed!

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

totally different circuit and sound than a 1959 circuit. Clean to the top. The sound is very similar to the 25L15 Standel amp of the era.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Had rehearsal with the new rig, sounds great! I'm quite pleased. I expected it to be a little darker than the other fender amps I've tried, not so! More high end than I can use. I plugged into the first input on the normal channel with the bright switch on and the treble at 0 and the bass at 10. I had the SMS Earth drive off when playing pedal steel, and turned it on for 6-string. I feel like I'll have plenty of clean headroom for the volume of this particular band. For rehearsal I didn't have the volume much past 2, but when i tried it at home, it stayed clean up past 5. Nice and loud.

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