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Topic: Need a second opinion |
Stephen Kuester
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 6:28 am |
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All this time I've been using my thumb and index finger --saving my middle finger for triads, chords, and such. Been playing for 4 years, woodshedding like a mad man, picking up anything and everything I can--loving my steady progress.
I recently sat down with someone for a lesson and they corrected my approach--telling me to use my thumb and middle finger for runs and saving the index for chords.
Man, it's like I'm starting all over again. I feel like I've lost the speed and dexterity that had taken so long to build. My right hand hurts and it's really got me down.
Should I just swallow the pill and relearn the right hand? If I continue to use thumb and index, will I eventually hit a brick wall?
Help me forumites... |
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 6:53 am
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| That's personal preference. I use my middle finger primarily but plenty of others rely on their index finger. Whichever works best for you is what you should do. You will not "hit a brick wall". |
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Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 7:09 am
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| True or not...no clue. But, when I started, I was told that the strength of the middle finger more closely matched that of the thumb, and that those two should be used in order to keep the volumn more consistant. But as Steve points out, a lot of people use the index finger. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 7:29 am
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i believe the strength & use of each finger should be equal
there seems to be a majority who use the thumb & middle as lead
since i use a basic 3 finger grip, i use both first & middle finger according to the positions |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 7:49 am
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On some days my Thumb/Middle combo is faster than my Thumb/Index combo. It varies but I can play all the two finger stuff either way. There are times when three fingers are needed and maybe even faster. You can also get a really cool tone on adjacent strings by hitting both of them with the thumb pick in quick succession, thus using no fingerpicks!
Greg |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 12:42 pm Re: Need a second opinion
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| Stephen Kuester wrote: |
Man, it's like I'm starting all over again. I feel like I've lost the speed and dexterity that had taken so long to build. My right hand hurts and it's really got me down.
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That's how you know you're a "thumb-index" guy: you tried for while to do what the teacher recommended but, ultimately, you play more naturally your own way.
Everybody's hands are a little different so you have to go with what works best for you. Plenty of folks rely on thumb-index for fast runs... there's no hard-and-fast rule that says it's definitely wrong to do it that way. As long as you're delivering the goods nobody should care which finger you're doing it with.  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 1:30 pm
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It depends on your right hand position. If you practice the roll-over, peak knuckle method, you can play alternate thumb, middle as fast as you want for single string runs. Add the index for triads and 3 note grips as necessary.
It's true, the middle finger is more powerful and most closely approximates the thumb stroke volume using that position. Ask any proficient dobro player.
If you practice the eagle claw method, it probably doesn't matter as much.
I would encourage you to listen to your instructor. There is method behind his madness. It will seem awkward at first, but will pay dividends later down the road. JMO and dos centavos. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 6:21 pm
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I switched to middle finger after 18 years, after buying newmans vid's....I layed into if for about 6 weeks and that was about 2 years ago, i'm all faster and cleaner now, but the curve was a bit stiff especially under pressure when i had gigs to cover and was trying to crossover,but i kept forcing myself even on the bandstand....They have proven through clinical test's that the thumb and middle finger has a straight connection somehow with the tendon's etc to be a more direct link.....Try tapping your first finger against your thumb 30 times and see how hard that is....Then do it with the middle finger and see how much easier it is.
Introducing the middle finger is worth a try for a few months and will also speed that one up and then you will have 2 fast nimble fingers.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2012 8:12 pm
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I've found there is no actually right or wrong...develop your own comfortable grips and go with what feels natural to you. Personally, I find my thumb and middle are getting the most work.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2012 1:43 am
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AIEEE!!!
"Sir, please step AWAY from the steel - keep your hands visible at all times!" Since no one else jumped this:
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| My right hand hurts and it's really got me down. |
I hope I'm just overreacting, but my three fused vertebrae, thoracic outlet syndrome, carpal tunnel times two (collectively known as the "double crush" syndrome, though I'm clocking quad-or-quint crush); and (so far) only one trigger finger gives me a right to overreact. 
There are no finger muscles in the hand to speak of, it's all just tendons and ligaments which can be tracked all the way up your forearm by pushing each finger while watching the wrist. If your finger hurts, you're doing something to a joint or tendon. And "playing through the pain" to toughen up your hand is a really bad plan. You'll want to pay close attention to the height of your elbows in relation to your hands, keeping your wrists straight in both dimensions, and just look at your fingers and what they're doing - awkward, or just a smooth quick "c'mere" twitch? And change up all of the above to see what happens, you can only know "just right" by trying too much, and, not enough!*
Without knowing anything, I would hazard a guess that you're trying to saddle up the middle finger without adjusting your right-hand position from the one that worked (painlessly)with the index. Another guess: I wonder if the index/thumb people are most inclined to palm bock, and the middle/thumb guys tend towards pick-blocking?
Even if that is so, you might want to experiment with both pick-, and palm-, blocking - just as it's a good idea to try to keep up with both the T-I and T-M picking. The reason being - counting the note durations and sequences. I learned more about playing guitar from Steve Morse than from any other single source. And he is a demonically-slick alternate-picking, strict up-down-up-down picker - except when he isn't  He cheats and "slips" his middle finger in for one note, which reverses the up-down pattern - back to normal!
This is why establishing a cooperative relationship with your "spare" finger could come in mighty handy. If you ever need to play some specific, difficult melody with odd turns and twists, put the bum to work! Regarding pick vs. palm blocking, it seems obvious to me the the pick-blocking hand position, up in the air with the palm sort-of parallel to the strings, offers a much better geometry for striking the strings. I'd go so far as to say that if you're angling the tips of the picks, twisting them to hit the strings without scraping, it's a mistake. I wrestle with this stuff a lot, because I love rock 'n' roll and the partially-muted chunk-chunk sound is required to play it well.
| Quote: |
| Been playing for 4 years, woodshedding like a mad man, picking up anything and everything I can--loving my steady progress. |
But, if that hand is still hurting in the morning, you need to lay off it a bit until you've hatched a scheme to fix it. Dig up the info on the four kinds of vibrato... Write a song?!? 
http://beta.musicradar.com/tuition/guitars/albert-lee-on-banjo-style-rolls-156670
*(Did I mention that if your index finger, or palm-muting, or "no picks" simply feels more "natural" to you, might as well put wheels on that thought and call it a skateboard - because this is the most UN-natural instrument in the world! Picks let you use less force to get a clearer tone.) |
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Stephen Kuester
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2012 6:07 am
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Only on the Steel Guitar Forum! I'm so grateful for these thoughtful responses.
Immediately after switching to thumb middle I could see how the mechanics work and how it would be beneficial. While playing two note passages/melodies, I noticed, right off the bat, more control and easier pick blocking. I run into trouble when I'm running scales with the metronome--trying to make it cleaner and faster. The inside of my hand starts barking and feels crampy (not the finger itself)--just doesn't feel natural. Playing guitar, running scales, I used to make a special point to abuse the hell out of my pinky to build strength--it felt sore, but in a building strength kind of way. This pain feels like it could catch up to me one day. But I want to get it right--no pain no gain.
Paging Dr. Mason: Dude, you hit it on the head! I am more inclined to palm block and I stand guilty of picking thumb middle without changing my right hand position--might just be what's causing the discomfort.
The good news is, after the encouragement I received from you guys, I sat down last night and decided to just play naturally without concentrating so hard on which finger is going where and guess what... I found myself incorporating my middle finger, especially while playing two note runs. Using a lot of thumb index, but maybe my approach will end up being a hybrid. Thanks again fellas. Now back to the woodshed. |
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