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Topic: Changing out a BW speaker for a JBL E-130 in my Nashvill1000 |
Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2012 7:14 pm |
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Are there any problems I should watch for if I change out the BW rear mounted speaker with a front mounted JBL E-130 in my Nashville 1000 amp? Hopefully they will just swap.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Aug 2012 8:06 pm
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Why not rear mount the JBL? That would be easiest. If you try to front mount it, the hole that Peavey made for the speaker may not be totally right. Usually, front mounted speakers use "T" nuts installed in the rear of the baffle for the screws. A regular nut and washer might work though.
But, I would just rear mount it. A lot easier. No extra work on your part to make it work. And you gain nothing by front mounting the speaker as opposed to rear mounting it. Also, the grill may not fit over the speaker and be able to stay put.
By the way, I don't believe there are "front mount" and "rear mount" speakers. Every speaker I have ever used or purchased can be mounted either way. Usually front mounts are best for sealed cabinets where you don't have to remove the back panel to get to the speaker. If the cabinet is not sealed, there is no real advantage to front mounting.
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2012 10:01 pm
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If the JBL is 8ohms you'll have 1/2 the power output.
http://www.usspeaker.com/jbl%20e130-1.htm
Looks like it's rated for 300 watts, so that shouldn't be a problem... you'll only be pushing 150 out of the NV1000 at 8ohms.
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Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 4:28 am
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History tells us that the Session 400's had JBL speakers which could not handle the sheer power and transients of the Session 400's, so, Peavey developed the BW....which is their answer to the JBL but it could handle the power of the amps...
All I am saying is do not get rid of your BW !
t
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 7:31 am
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The JBL will not handle the power, even if its 8 ohms.
If you want a different speaker, the Eminence EPS-15C is a 4 ohm neodymium light weight speaker. It was designed to be a direct replacement for the Peavey 1501-4 speaker. If I still had a Nashville 1000 I would have an Eminence in it. Reduces the weight too.
When I field tested the Eminence speaker, the first impression I got was this sounds like the JBL K-130 that I had in an old Twin Reverb amp. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 9:35 am
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Guys, you didn't follow my link! The E-series JBL is much more of a monster speaker... the 15" is rated for 300watts no problem.
_________________
Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 10:54 am
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This taken from the JBL manual for E series speakers.
| Quote: |
| Some musicians prefer the sound of an open-back box. If an E Series loudspeaker is installed in an open-back enclosure the maximum power applied to the speaker should not exceed 50% of it's continuous sine wave rating. For example, an E130, which is rated at 150 watts continuous sine wave, should not have more than 75 watts applied to it when mounted in an open-back box. |
Click the following link to see full manual.
http://www.rukind.com/html/jbl/jbl_e120_instruction_manual.pdf
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 2:18 pm
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Man, I had no idea it got so wimpy when run open-backed... with that kind of sensitivity (105dB) it really won't need that many watts anyway. I wonder what's the dealie-o with the reduced watts run open-backed?
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Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Mike Kowalik
From:
San Antonio,Texas
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 2:59 pm
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Nothing beats a BLACK WIDOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 3:07 pm
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Don't know Stephen. In the 70's, I used to make custom JBL cabinets with a friend, both musical instrument and home stereo cabinets. A JBL rep we spoke to said that a sealed cabinet could take higher wattages because the pressure that is created inside the cabinet based on internal dimensions, port size and depth, and sound absorption by strategic placement of the sound proofing material inside, would help keep the speaker from travelling too far and having the voice coil exit the voice coil gap. Don't know if this is accurate, but I guess he should know. I always thought heat buildup was the main cause of failure. Maybe if the speaker doesn't move as far, it helps keep heat down. Don't know.
Have to agree with Mike K.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 4:43 pm
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You shouldn't have any problems with the E130. Some other mfgs. of high powered steel guitar amps used them. Webb, for one and some Randall Steelman amps used them, but no personal experience here.
Herby Wallace used them for a time with his big TubeWorks stereo rig.
You can front mount it, but you'll have to reverse the T-nuts and you may have to use a different speaker grille.
The speaker gasket is likely glued to the front of the speaker so if you decide to mount it from the front, I would recommend some light foam sealing tape on the rear of the frame. You can use home style weather stripping.
Durability issues and whether or not you'll like it better than the BW is something you won't know 'til you try it. They are close to the same weight, so you won't gain anything there. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2012 8:16 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Don't know Stephen. In the 70's, I used to make custom JBL cabinets with a friend, both musical instrument and home stereo cabinets. A JBL rep we spoke to said that a sealed cabinet could take higher wattages because the pressure that is created inside the cabinet based on internal dimensions, port size and depth, and sound absorption by strategic placement of the sound proofing material inside, would help keep the speaker from travelling too far and having the voice coil exit the voice coil gap. Don't know if this is accurate, but I guess he should know. I always thought heat buildup was the main cause of failure. Maybe if the speaker doesn't move as far, it helps keep heat down. Don't know.
Have to agree with Mike K. |
If it was just xMax then you could get around it by not letting the lows through... I can see how a cabinet would limit the speaker excursion somewhat... but what about a huge cabinet, infinite baffle? Reductio Ad Absurdum... becomes basically a room-sized box, just about the same as open-back.
The buzz I read indicates that the cone is very light-weight... the freakin' thing has a 105dB 1w1M sensitivity so it's already louder than the BW it replaces by about double the effective watts... meaning you can turn it down (or put it on a smaller amp) and get the same output. You can also recone it with another JBL kit that has more coil overlap at xMax (that's max excursion for you non-geeks) which seems to be the main concern... but that would be a different-sounding speaker.
I say run with it and don't crank it too much... you probably won't have to!
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Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2012 4:06 am
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I replaced the stock BW in a new Session 400 Limited with an E130. No problems mounting it rear loaded as I remember, other than having to mount it upside down to be able to use the stock speaker leads.
As far as the sound, in that particular amp the BW sounded better. It didn't sound good, but that was because the amp was terrible. The N1000 is probably a completely different story. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 23 Aug 2012 4:28 am
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According to what I've read, Peavey was using the JBL's in the original Session 400 but the speakers were blowing. The Black Widows was developed to be a JBL "clone" but with higher power handling capabilites.
That would also account for the Eminence EPS-15C, built to being a BW 1501-4 direct replacement, sounding like a JBL. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2012 5:41 am
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Thanks for the info regarding things I need to watch out for in my pending speaker swap. Yes, the JBL is 8 ohm, so I will lose some power (almost half) at the higher power outputs, but the bands I play with now will mike the amps if it is a big hall, so we do not have to run the post gain wide open, as I did with a lot of 'younger bands'.
The dicussion of front mounted vs rear mounted speakers has to do with my hearing a subtle difference in experimenting with both when I built my own speaker cabinets, and could use either the front or rear mounts. For the rear mounted, the 3/4" baffle board creates a short cylindrical wall, which tends to 'focus' the sound and change the spread of the high treble. The front mounting removes that short wall and seems to give more brilliance to the sound.
While I was doing all of this in the 68-70 period, I met Jim Evans when he was building the Sho-Bud tube amps and advertising a "front loaded" speaker in them, for the reasons as above. He also would build closed back cabinets which emphasized the full bassy sound the 'Chalker' copiers wanted.
All in all, I have always liked the smoother sounding JBL for the many lower volume places I played, BUT I did get my Nashville 1000 with the BW when I still needed to pump up the volume.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 23 Aug 2012 8:25 am
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1) Your Peavey NV100 will not blow out an E130, so forget about that issue.
2) Even at 8 ohms the E130 is more than twice as efficient as the speaker you are replacing, so actual loudness should increase even though the electrical power delivered may be less.
3) The JBL is gonna sound a whole lot better, too, but that amp will weigh a short ton... |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 23 Aug 2012 3:19 pm
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Jim I wouldn't go selling off your BW1501 just yet - run the JBL and see how it goes first 
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