What is about Clinesmith?

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

This isn't meant to be confrontational but I am just curious about what is sufficiently unique about a Clinesmith pedal steel to justify a price tag of $10,000? I am looking at one here that doesn't even have a rear apron. Nice looking wood, but ten grand will buy a really nice used 4x4 pickup truck. There seems to be a major disconnect between the selling price and what the intrinsic value appears to be. Are they considered as art or something?

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

The Clinesmith is a Bigsby in all aspects but the name on the front of the guitar. That alone makes it worth big bucks to a lot of people.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

for that matter, why are bigsbies worth so much? i wouldn't think any professional would buy one to perform with. is it just nostalgia?

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

Why is a P-P Emmons, a vintage Tele or Les Paul worth so much? As far as performing with them, how many guys bring their 54 Strat to a bar gig? I think Herb Steiner uses his Bigbsy when it's appropriate for the gig and Tom Morrell used his T-10 for many years. He wasn't real precious about it, either. Anyone else use a Bigsby regularly?

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

at least a tele, paul or emmons will perform the same function as a more modern guitar, but a bigsby with it's limited archaeic mechanics would be like taking a rambler to a road race.

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

Like any vintage instrument, Bigsbys have their limitations. No one plays a Bigsby and expects to have 3 raise/lower, splits, etc. It's simple: you want that tone, you play a Bigsby or a Clinesmith and play them on their own terms.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Jeremy Wakefield still uses his Bigsby, when he plays. Back when I was playing with the Radio Ranch Straight Shooters, I was playing a triple-10, no-pedal, but because I was also the "rhythm guitar", I switched to a single-10 pedal Bigsby. There's a sound that comes from a Bigsby that's very difficult to get from another guitar and if that's the sound you want, a Bigsby and now the Clinesmith has that sound. By the same token, my wraparound PP sounds different from all my other guitars.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

The style of the player is as much a determinant as the instrument. I wouldn't bring my Bigsby if I was in a copy band that had to do music from the 1980's to the present, fer sure. But for country music up into the 1960's my Bigsby T-8 (6 pedals/no levers) certainly can do the job. Bear in mind that during the 1960's, many players were still using 8-string guitars. Including Ralph Mooney and Tom Brumley on the early-mid period Buck Owens recordings.

If a player has a certain touch and knows the neck of his guitar, knows a few elementary slant bar positions, et al., the Bigsby is no hindrance. As an example, I have a video of a gig I did with James Hand back in 2003, with Pete Mitchell on guitar and Jimmy Clark on fiddle/mando. The lead instruments are off-camera until their solo, but you can hear them in the background. From my off-camera fills, it sounded like I was playing the E9 neck on my Emmons D-10, but when I got camera time I was surprised to see that I was playing the D9 neck on my 1949 Bigsby, with no diatonic strings of course.

Now, as to why Bigsbys are *worth* that much, it's probably because of their rarity and vintage cachet, and because guys who have access to that kind of money want one (or more). The price of something is both a reflection of the value of the item to the purchaser, and also the value of money to the purchaser. If a picker doesn't have 10 grand for a Bigsby, it's a lot of money. If a collector/investor/whatever has beaucoup bucks out the wazoo, 10K for a vintage horn is a relatively reasonable price. There's no absolute.

Is a Lloyd Loar F-5 *worth* $125K? Is a '59 Les Paul *worth* 250K? It's strictly the call of who's selling and who's buying. Everyone else is simply the peanut gallery, where there's always been many, many empty seats.

Just parenthetically, I acquired my Bigsby before the hyper-inflation of their pricing, and paid less than most guys now do for a modern steel guitar, as quite a few of the Bigsby owners I know have done.

Regarding the $9999 Clinesmith on Bobbe's website, I believe that guitar has a unique 7-pedal custom undercarriage designed and installed by Bobbe. I think Todd's stock design features cable/pulley operation consistent with the original Bigsby guitar, that Todd's price for a D-10 is considerably less than the price shown on the SGN'ville website. However, Todd's website domain seems to be currently down or up for renewal, so calling him for information is the only option available at the moment.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

I find it funny that Mr. Franklin can come on the forum and people will argue and debate with him...
But no one seems to want to mince words with Professor Steiner.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Well I didn't even know that there was any connection between Clinesmith and Bigsby. So is the Clinesmith shown on Bobbe's site a vintage instrument? There's no description so I just thought it was a new guitar made by a company I've never heard anything about. Pardon my ignorance but I'm just,,,well, ignorant. Laughing

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

let me say, as a Clinesmith owner, his steels are classic atomic age art - and they are NOT $10K - about 1/2 that.
i calculated with an inflation calc that the price of a new Clinesmith is roughly in line, if not cheaper, than what someone paid for a Bigsby (in 1950's dollars) - cant beat that!

what Bobbe has for sale is a retro hot rod, thus the price.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

I have a bunch of Bigsbys, but I am happy to have a Clinesmith as well. They are great. And you can get a Clinesmith with less effort.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Clinesmith 001 - Bigsby 122048

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

I know JW designed the Clinesmith logo, but every time I see it I think it says Chassmith
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

JW misspelled Chassmith.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

I beleive Chas can chime in here, but if I recall, this guitar was extensively measured and photographed and resulted in Clinesmith #001

_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.

Michael Robertson · From: Ventura, California. USA

chris ivey email sent.
_________________
No Avatar only a picture of my Mentor.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Most vintage instruments are half as good as newer one's and are generally over priced, i agree 10K what kind of dope comes with that??
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The visual design is absolutely stunning, IMHO. That said, I've played Herb's Bigsby and if the Clinesmith plays the same way, I wouldn't want one. It just feels too primitive and awkward for my taste.

I don't know what Todd is charging for his new pedal guitars, but $7K wouldn't be out of line for a D-8 considering the amazing craftsmanship and beauty of the instrument. Just my opinion.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Rick, I got a call from Todd that he wanted to measure Joaquin's Bigsby to make a lap guitar. It sounded like a great idea, except that there's only one of these guitars in the world, and I'd like to keep it that way, not that I'm greedy or self-centered, well, maybe a little bit. He assured me that he would only be making single necks.

He came down to my studio and spent the next 8 hours measuring and documenting every aspect of the guitar. I was very impressed with his diligence and attention to detail, plus he was a very enjoyable guest. I don't always get to have a "Bigsby Day" around here then sometime later, Clinesmith 001 showed up.

Here on the Forum, we all spend time talking about sustain and tone. 001, lap style, seemed like a "small" guitar, given that I spend a lot of time with multi-neck guitars and large metal instruments. To be honest, I was very surprised by the noticeable sustain and when I did a tone comparison with the D-8, 001 had a similar quality, but with more "fullness" (sorry PA, it's true).

As an instrument builder and restorer, myself, I pay attention to what other builders are doing and everything I've seen that Todd has done is top shelf. These are hand made guitars and this is 2012, not 1972. I think his prices are reasonable for what you're getting.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic