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Topic: Tubes for Fender Hot Rod Deluxe |
Marty Nemanick
From:
Madera, California, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2012 4:37 pm |
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Any suggestions for a 6L6 tube [type/manufacturer] that would work well with PSG in these amps? I need to replace the original ones in my '96 HRD, and there are a lot to choose from. Any input would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Marty |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2012 6:15 pm
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| I've always had great results from JJ's... |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 Jul 2012 8:22 pm
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I have had terrible luck with JJ tubes - the preamp tubes are ok, if you can stand the sound of them, but the output tubes are poorly assembled and rattle in a combo cabinet. I stopped using them in my amps years ago after a lot of hair pulling out trying to find where the sleigh bell sound was coming from.
I only use Ruby brand tubes now - things have changed and now China makes the most reliable new production vacuum tube.
TAD tubes are made in the same factory, but they do not offer the 6 month warranty that Ruby does. Also, I have had problems with their preamp tubes.
That all said, the best choice is new old stock - spend a little more on the tubes, and you will not have to replace them for at least another 20 years. New production tubes have a laughable operating lifespan compared to the old American ones. How many Fender amps still work well with their original RCA tubes? Always worth it in my opinion.
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Milkmansound.com |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 30 Jul 2012 7:47 am
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The "Winged C" sound very good. Not as tubby as the Sovteks. You can get them from Antique Electronics.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 4:23 am
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| Used over 1000 JJ tubes in the shop, very reliable tubes. Also you mught like the new Tungsol reissue or SED tubes. All very good tubes. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 4:24 am
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I have had good luck with JJs playing a clean sound
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 7:54 am
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FYI, the SED tubes are the "Winged C" tubes I mentioned. They are the original manufacturer of Svetlana tubes, but their US distributor trademarked the name for the US. When they had a falling out with the distributor, they were forced to change their name in the US. The US "Svetlana" tubes are actually made by Sovtek.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Marty Nemanick
From:
Madera, California, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 12:22 pm
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Thank you all for the suggestions. I'm going try a set of Ruby's. The NOS tubes I have found are a hundred bucks apiece, that would be half of what I paid for the amp! Thanks again for the replies.
Marty |
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Steve Humes
From:
Tampa, Florida, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 2:08 pm
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This is a good source of info for that amp
http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/
I have one and it sits on top of a Fender Bassman 15" cabinet. I changed out the pre amp tubes and replaced the stock speaker. It is loud, clean and clear. |
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Marty Nemanick
From:
Madera, California, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2012 5:47 pm
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Steve,
What did you use to replace the preamp tubes? The first thing I did was replace the stock Eminence speaker with an older EVM12L, it is heavier, but it sounds fantastic.
Marty |
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Waisznor
From:
Berlin, Germany
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2012 5:26 am
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From John Templeton, at the tubestore.com:
30 Watt Tubes
Sylvania 6L6GC (used for reference) - Another classic brought in for reference purposes. Unfortunately, microphonics were a problem, causing it to rank below comparable Svetlana and Sovtek tubes. It had a sweet sound but it shows that buying rare NOS tubes can be a bit of a crapshoot.
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JJ 6L6GC - Big, open, articulate; these are the words that came into my head when listening to the JJ tubes. The build quality is very rugged with thick glass and a well supported plate assembly. Perhaps this is a factor in the extremely low noise and lack of microphonics that this tube exhibits. The tubes have great tone and nicely capture the “6L6 sound”, characterized by sparkling highs, warm mids, and controlled bass response. Biasing was easy and well within the range of the standard bias adjustment circuit in the test amp. A great choice for any of the Fender amps made in the 60’s and 70’s.
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Sovtek 5881WXT - Solid construction and good performance. While not outstanding, the 5881WXT is probably the most commonly used tube of its type. Many amp manufacturers have been using these reliable workhorses as original equipment components. A good choice for general purpose use but not as rich in harmonic content as others in this class. If you like to run your guitar straight into the amp, there are better choices. If you prefer to run through a bunch of rack equipment or like major crunch and overdrive sounds then this tube will work well.
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Sovtek 6L6WXT+ - Guitar-cable-amplifier. If this describes the rig you use, then this is one of two modern tubes you should consider. This is not a repackaged 5881. Extremely low noise and a lack of microphonics combine with excellent ratings for detail and harmonic content to provide a tube of exceptional quality. These tubes can be used in any tube amp. Plenty of power and great tone. We have tested these tubes with plate voltages ranging from 425 to 500 volts without problem. Biasing can be set from conservative to hot; again, no real problem and great tone will be delivered from most settings.
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Winged "C"/SED 6L6GC - Tremendous harmonic content and an overall depth in sound make these another excellent choice for the purist. They can handle solid plate voltages and are very well constructed. Consider these tubes as an excellent choice for any type of music, delivering crystal cleans and smooth breakup with plenty of punch. Unequaled clarity and complex harmonics, plenty of sustain and depth.
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Svetlana SV-6L6GC - The tube has a nice balanced sound that is not as bottom heavy as say the TAD and not as bright as the SED. The midrange response is very nice. No honk and no really pronounced EQ shelving as you manipulate the tone controls of the amp. Very smooth and balanced frequency response that sounds great driving Celestion speakers which tend to be a bit honky in the mids and extreme in the Bass and Treble. Clean sounds are pretty chimey and overdrive is thick with lots of sustain. I tried a Fuzz Face, Vox Fuzz, Linear Power Booster, reverb and delay. Effects sound great and don’t make the tube mush out. Microphonics and hum simply aren’t factors with the SV6L6GC tube since they use a very good system for mounting the internals. They give off a good bit of heat and this is facilitated by oversized wings on the plate structure. One of the best applications for these tubes would be in Marshall JTM 45 and Bluesbreaker reissues. These amps usually ship with the Sovtek 5881 WXT+ and sound pretty dead. I have a meticulously built JTM45 head and these tubes sound better than Siemens EL34’s or Shuguang KT66’s. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t done it to my own amp. I’m running the tubes at 40 mA and 466 plate volts. I ran them up to 48 mA without problem.
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TAD 6L6GC-STR - Very close tonally to the JJ 6L6GC with a bit more going on and easily justifying the extra cost. These are labeled as an STR tube. STR standing for Special Tube Request. When a buyer goes to the tube maker and delivers a specific set of specifications the tube goes into production as a S.T.R. One of the best know is the old Sylvania 6L6 tall bottles with the designation STR387. The TAD 6L6GC-STR is matched for plate current and transconductance and has the look of an old Sylvania. Using the old school U.S. style 6L6 plate design and a shiny black plate material they look like American manufactured stock. The sound is all there. The TAD is very percussive or punchy if you prefer. This makes them great for palm muting or “chunky” down-stroke rhythm playing. They break up a bit earlier than a JJ or Svetlana so you can get a bit nasty by digging in with your pick or clean things up by rolling back your volume control. They had the best tone biased at about 70% of rated plate dissipation. That’s about 21 watts at idle for a tube with a design max output of 30 watts. Both this tube and the TAD 6L6WGC-STR had some initial drift in plate current and required about 20 minutes to settle. I would recommend installing the tubes with an initial bias setting close to your target and check them again after ten minutes in play mode with a final check and adjustment after twenty minutes.
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TAD 6L6WGC-STR - A completely different animal than the TAD 6L6GC-STR. That’s not a bad thing and shows that the company is really working on developing unique products. A completely different plate structure than their other 6L6. These are short bottles just like the American 6L6WGC but they chose to use a proprietary plate structure. Sonically, I found these to be brighter than the GC version and tonally similar to a G.E. black plate 6L6. I have a customer with a 1962 Fender Concert amp with 4 10” Oxford speakers. I have tried just about everything in stock to make this amp sound good. Previously the only thing that made us both happy was NOS G.E. Alas, one of the tubes died and so did my stash. I tried a lot of tubes and had left the TAD until the end because it didn’t have the look this customer was used to. To my surprise I tried the 6L6WGC-STR and it was magic. I got the same tone as the old G.E. tubes but the biasing was colder than what I used for NOS tubes in the past, closer to 55% or about 17 watts at idle as opposed to 20 – 25 watts (70-80%) that most people seem to like for rock or blues.
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Tung-sol 6L6GC-STR - A nice solid short bottle 6L6 that looks more like a 6L6WGC but has 6L6GC performance ratings. The plate structure is very similar to a Svetlana with the extra cooling wings and the bottles are very similar to the Tung-Sol 5881. One could be led to believe that the parent company used bits and pieces from current production and came up with the Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR. This is partly true but inaccurate. These are a very rugged tubes with a unique, “dusty-black” plate coating. The sound is closer to a 5881 than a 6L6GC but they have a higher output rating. Biasing in my sample tubes was very particular. If you bias them hot they lose some definition and take on that tweed amp tone. With these tube hot could be anything above the 70% mark. During the test I found that idle settings between 15 watts and 20 watts (50-60%) provided a clean, warm sound that would overdrive nicely. A lot of techs go for the 70% mark, or about 21 watts at idle. The Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR starts to change character at this point. The result is not unpleasing and they are rated for more output than a 5881 or 6L6WGC so by all means experiment. This is one of the few tubes I’ve tested where I would start at 18 watts idle (60%) and then slightly adjust up and down to find the spot your ears like best. Check again with your test equipment to make sure you’re in spec and you should be good to go.
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Tung-sol 6L6G - If tubes were sold by the pound these would be very valuable tubes. I tend to classify the Tung Sol 6L6G as a specialty tube. This is not a normal 6L6 tube in today’s market. This tube is aimed squarely at the vintage market or amplifiers where looks are as important as sound. The Tung Sol 6L6G is enormous. A quick glance may lead you to believe you are looking at something exotic, perhaps a large power triode. It is taller than any 6L6 you can readily find. It has the slope shoulder bottle that many refer to as a “coke bottle” and it is extremely heavy. I seldom see anything old or new that has glass as thick and well formed as this Tung Sol. In fact it is very similar to a Tungsol 6L6 from the early 50’s I keep in my vintage stash. The new tube is still a bit bigger and has much thicker glass.
The vintage look is very cool but there are some issues that need to be addressed. Being so tall, this tube will not fit into all amplifiers so you have to be sure about your size requirements. The base of the tube has a tapered bottom like a KT66. This means that the Fender style “bear trap” retainers won’t grab the base. These guys will fall out if mounted inverted without proper retainers because they are very heavy. If you have an amp where the tubes sit upright this isn’t a big issue. If you have an amp where the tubes hang inverted, the basket and spring type retainers must be used. This is the price of looking cool.
Let’s not forget to talk about the sound. Although labeled a 6L6G this reissue Tungsol meets all the requirements of a 6L6GC. In fact, the internal assembly looks almost identical to the standard Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR. It will work fine in fixed bias and cathode bias designs and sounds just like the standard Tung Sol 6L6GC. Nothing really old or vintage about the sound. If you like the standard 6L6 this company makes you’ll like the sound of this flashy cousin.
The Tung Sol 6L6G sounds great and looks amazing. It won’t be for everyone, but if you have a cool piece of vintage gear or something on display there’s really nothing on the market that can compete with it.
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Tung-sol 7581 (6L6GC) - This is a new tube from Tung Sol and so far the field reports are quite good. Like most things out of Russia, the Tungsol 7581 tube bears an uncanny resemblance to another Russian tube. In this case the Svetlana 6L6GC. It's not identical, but shares the same tall, straight, bottles and general plate structure. The support spacers are similar, as is the plate structure. Again, there are differences, and we can't see the part of the tube where the magic happens because it's all encased in the plate structure. |
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Steve Humes
From:
Tampa, Florida, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2012 1:17 pm
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Marty,
V1 -Soldano branded 12AX7
V2 - NOS GE JAN 5751
V3 - Mullard 4024 (12AT7)
You can really lower the volume on these amps if you are not careful. I played with the tube combinations for days, and may do more experimenting. I have a bunch of pre amp tubes since that size is so common. |
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