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Topic: Bose L1 Amp for steel guitar |
Lonnie Terry
From:
Penticton B.C. Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2010 10:41 am |
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Been experimenting with the Bose L1 model 11 system with tone match engine for some time now. Although some people write it off as only a wonderfull P A system, which it is of course, typical of Bose quality, however there are dozens of presets and hudreds of parameters to play around with.
Here are my current settings using Mullen RP S10 with Bill Lawrence humbucker direct from vol pedal into the Tone Match
Preset Rickenbacker Bass 4001
ZEQ low 3.0 mid 2.6 high 3
Para eq level 1.0 freq 1564 width 1.9
compression 1 thresh -18.5 gain 13.8
modulation chorus 1 mix 38% depth 27%
delay type digital mix 10% time319.2 ms
reverb mix41% bright 50%
rev type medium time1.70 balance 50%
I'm not quite there yet but getting pretty close to the desired tone.
Any one out there with alternate settings ? |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2010 10:53 am
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| I wish I had the L1 to play around with. Back in the late 70's I played my Emmons through a Crown DC300 into a pair of Bose 800s using a Peavey Musician head for a preamp. I always loved the way it sounded - probably my all time favorite speakers. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 18 Oct 2010 2:23 pm
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Glad to hear that this is working for you, keep us posted on your continuing adventures.
Now here's a contrary word from cranky Dave: In over thirty years in the professional sound reinforcement business I have never once heard a knowlegeable audio professional say of any BOSE product that it represented "a wonderful PA system" - in fact the joke amongst those who know has long been that BOSE is an acronym for "Bring Other Sound Equipment." While the T1 Audio Engine that drives the L1 offers expanded digital signal control over previous offerings it only partially makes up for the fact that the product - which contrary to marketing claims is not a true "line array" at all - offer little to nothing in the way of dispersion control (absolutely essential in producing useable gain before feedback), adequate radiating surface or power handling (necessary for detailed music reproduction in even nominally large venues) or anything remotely resembling a flat frequency response (which is why BOSE speakers have always been coupled with all that custom signal processing). While there are some applications in which they work well enough to satisfy the primary thing going for the BOSE product line continues to be a very creative and tireless marketing team and an advertising budget to match.
The good news here is that you may have just discovered a bona fide first class use for them, as slightly ungainly but quite distinctive instrument amps! If it works out for you or anybody else then this would ultimately have to be considered an excellent success story, but I'm here to tell ya that a wonderful PA system it will never be!  |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Oct 2010 9:08 am
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| Amen brother Dave. |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2012 8:28 pm Re: Bose L1 Amp for steel guitar
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| Lonnie Terry wrote: |
Been experimenting with the Bose L1 model 11 system with tone match engine for some time now. Although some people write it off as only a wonderfull P A system, which it is of course, typical of Bose quality, however there are dozens of presets and hudreds of parameters to play around with.
Here are my current settings using Mullen RP S10 with Bill Lawrence humbucker direct from vol pedal into the Tone Match
Preset Rickenbacker Bass 4001
ZEQ low 3.0 mid 2.6 high 3
Para eq level 1.0 freq 1564 width 1.9
compression 1 thresh -18.5 gain 13.8
modulation chorus 1 mix 38% depth 27%
delay type digital mix 10% time319.2 ms
reverb mix41% bright 50%
rev type medium time1.70 balance 50%
I'm not quite there yet but getting pretty close to the desired tone.
Any one out there with alternate settings ? |
Interesting post. I actually WON a Bose L1 model 2 system and it arrives next week! I plan to try this out as a steel amp.
Regarding the disparaging remarks about Bose PA gear, the L1 model 2 is a real departure from normal PA systems, and many people love these setups, especially for acoustic bands. One major appeal is that this system is the mains AND the monitors. Bose definitely marches to their own drummer, and normal PA guys like what they know about. There is no disputing Bose quality, but the stuff is very pricey. The system I won has a street price of $2700!
As somebody who has some hearing issues, especially in loud stage situations, I look forward to doing gigs with this rig as our PA, and maybe as my steel amp when we use a traditional PA. I have trouble hearing myself well enough to nail the pitch, and not too loud that I go even more deaf.
I suggest you guys read about the L1 model 2 at the Bose site. I have played 2 gigs so far where this system was used, and the sound at both was great.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Steve Humes
From:
Tampa, Florida, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 12:19 am
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| I have enjoyed my Bose Model 1 since I traded in several hundred pounds of gear and wires for it in 2005. Never looked back, and finally just got the ToneMatch engine. Looking forward to discovering some good settings for the PSG. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 2:20 am
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| Bose L1 = harsh off-axis response. Listen to it from all angles and judge for yourself. |
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Steven Finley
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 12:49 pm
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For years we carted around big, heavy PA systems. It was the fad to have refrigerator size speakers, (Shure, Peavey, QSC/L, Mackie, Black Widows, JBL, Electro-Voice) plus a milk truck to haul it.
With the Bose (we have the big one with all the bells and whistles) it has cut the weight and space needed to cart the PA without sacrificing quality. The vocals through the Bose offer the best clarity of any PA we have used so far. If a band needs the loud overtones to offer cover for intonation short-comings, then they might not be happy with the clarity of the Bose--you can't hide mistakes and you can hear everything!
We are coming into the age of micro-equipment, which means lighter amps and PAs, built in effects, no need of extra bulky monitors, wireless systems which will replace all cables, etc. It was a change for our ears to graduate from tube to digital. It takes a bit of getting used to, but the Bose is far superior to the old systems. Re: power, if you want more power than what the big Bose offers (for 500 people) you can link a second one or even run 4 through a mixing board without losing any of the clarity. Bose works for Steel Guitar, Acoustic Guitar, Keyboards, and shines for vocals.
The weight factor is a big plus, and I no longer need a milk truck to haul it. I also enjoy my new Roland Cube. For the weight lifters, hang on to your big, heavy PA systems. For those of us who don't like pain, get your Bose and your Cube. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 8:40 pm
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Saw the Jerey boys show twice, The first show was PA`d with TC Furlong equipment and was spectacular, I was the hawaiin lap steeler for Mele kaleki macha song, They made me a special guest for a christmas special,1 song & Of course I stoled the show W/ Hawaiin clothes, a 1962 GIbson lap on my shoulder and maui Jim sunglasses on....
The second show they used Bose line arrays and there was problems with one of them going in and out constantly.
When a show is 90 minutes long and the gross amount equals $130,000.00 You cant reset the stage, I would trust the bigger PA system more, anything can break during the abuse of moving equipment, If its lighter it can be thrown easier, heavier equipment needs a hand truck and its not to bad, I know about loading heavy stage equipment, I`m more careful with the heavy, The lighter bose stuff gets piled on a cart with as much as you can put on it (fill that cart with everything you can)
on small venues I` ve found that the owners of the Bose PA systems are subjecting there ear to your sound whether you like it or not and when you play 90 degrees from the speaker post at the back of a wall(Line array they call it) bad things seem to happen to good steel players, You cant hear yourself, because of the fact of being out of range, walking over someone, The mix is set to move forward, the sides seem to be frequency bashed when your trying to hear where the song is going,and mistakes will happen, many times I`ve played with bands w/Bose that I`ve never even met and there is a side problem for me,
The one man band job has a great call for a BOSE system, There is nobody else to frequency bash ,
Out in front is what matters in the end result, mistakes are hard to cover up on a bose system, they are very clean sounding amps, Not good for monitoring at all, for me at the least....Just sayin
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 9:18 pm
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no highs, no lows... must be Bose 
sorry - couldn't resist throwing that in there - its an old sound engineer joke
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Steven Finley
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 9:42 pm Response to Craig
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You bring up a valid point regarding frequency bashing with other players. This can happen if the other players are not listening to each other. Many lead guitar players seem to be guilty of this and get off on drowning out the rest of the band. With larger PAs, there is usually a soundman monitoring and adjusting levels. With a smaller system, such as the Bose, it is necessary to have tasteful players so this doesn't happen. As you noticed, because of the Bose clarity, every mistake comes through crystal clear.
Regarding the side angle problem. The Bose instructions require the column be set up 7 feet behind the instruments. Most stages are not designed to allow this. So we solved the side angle problem by running 2 Bose, one on either side, columns pointed slightly inward toward the center of the room. Everyone on stage can hear very well and the sound in the room fills every space. I might add that running the Steel through 2 Bose gives it an awesome stereo effect to deliver fullness, punch and clarity, while my Cube functions as an added monitor for my ear only.
Re moving smaller equipment, time to re-educate the roadies. They need to treat the Bose like Grandma's china. In 2 years and several cross-country tours, our Bose has functioned perfectly. |
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Steve Humes
From:
Tampa, Florida, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 2:33 am
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| The phase issues are addressed in the newer Bose systems. I remain very pleased with my original L1 for use in smaller ensembles. I also use it as a stage monitor with directional speakers for larger venues, which for me aren't more that 200 people. I would not try to use it for venues where the distance from the stage to the back do the audience is greater that 100'. The advantages in physical footprint, loading and sound dispersion, for my uses anyway, have made it a permanent part of my sound reinforcement. I have used it under large tents, 20's era theaters, in modern architectural nightmares, and the only place where it has come up short is where there were not enough surfaces for the sound to reflect off of, most specifically a ceiling surface. Not trying to be argumentative at any level, but this system has done well for me. I am looking forward to setting it up with the ToneMatch engine I just got to see how it will work for a duo situation where I play guitar mandolin, and hope to incorporate the PSG. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 24 Jul 2012 8:37 am
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Every time somebody starts this conversation up I see a great deal of hogwash spouted by folks with little or no understanding of audio science. If the thread goes on long enough somebody will start bashing folks they don't even know for telling the smelly truth about these over-priced, over-promoted and under-performing consumer products.
When you hear an experienced audio engineer speaking negatively about BOSE gear it has nothing to do with "what they know about" or some perceived hipness quotient. It has everything to do with the actual facts of the matter, facts which the uneducated are not privy to and which the BOSE marketing staff does not want you to know:
1) No BOSE gear by itself has decent frequency response, it all requires the use of expensive proprietary processors, which by design add noise and distortion to the signal across the entire audio spectrum. Well-designed speaker systems need none of this monkey-business to work properly, even the inevitable phase distortion introduced by a four-way 24dB-per-octave crossover is limited to a few very narrow bands and not spread over the entire listening range as BOSE does with its processors
2) Most significantly, NO amount of hocus-pocus can get around the fact that moving a large mass of air a small amount is more effective than moving a small mass of air a great deal. This may be the dawning of the "micro age" but the laws of physics have not changed one iota; micro speakers will never equal large radiating surfaces for dispersion control, fidelity and clarity at every seat in the house.
3) Anybody who tells you that ANY product is both mains and monitors in one does not know how to use either properly.
4) Bottom line is if you have something that works for you then you have something that works for you, no more and no less. If so I am truly happy for you, but try to not let your excitement over the new toy get so out of hand that you begin to denigrate anyone who disagrees with your uneducated notions because you imagine that they are simply clinging to "what they know about!" "What they know about" audio equipment, theory and practice is most likely far more than you will ever come to grips with, so maybe it's time to say "thank you" to the folks who spend their own valuable time posting real information here for people like you to access for free, whether or not you are capable of recognizing this gift for what it is.... |
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Steve Humes
From:
Tampa, Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2012 9:48 am
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Apparently I've been a happy idiot with a new toy for several years now.
I respectfully appreciate your valuable time and real information, and in no way intend any denigration, expect agreement, or profess any grand audio engineering knowledge with the hopefully excusable exception of my own personal 7+ years of enjoyable experience doing small gigs with the product. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 24 Jul 2012 12:01 pm
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You have given me no offense here or anywhere else, Steve. There are a number of applications that can work quite well for the L1 and L2 and it sounds like you have found a match, but as an audio tool for professionals to use in the day-to-day working world they present more problems than solutions. As I said before, if you have one of these rigs - or any other sound system - and it works well for you then go right ahead on, the goal is happy musicians and listeners and I am as pleased about it as anybody when this elusive intention is actually achieved.
It is when enthusiasts with little to no technical comprehension begin to declare the new epiphany of audio and, in pursuit of this mistaken thesis, dismiss out of hand the honest and learned assessments of those who actually understand the science of audio that my dander gets worked up. |
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Steven Finley
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 12:33 am
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The issue has been raised of the necessity of massive amounts of moving air to produce a valid sound. Many systems use this technique. However, after using my new Roland Cube 80XL, I believe this to be a myth. The pristine sound produced by the Cube is attained not by driving massive amounts of air, but by newer technology which produces such an awesome tone that people quiet down to listen to the music instead of having the sound pushed down their throats.
Roland is also the mfgr of Cakewalk Home Studio and Sonar recording software. This same principle is used in the Bose black box. Anyone who wants to understand how to set their Bose black box can get the Quick Reference Guide to Cakewalk and be able to set up the Bose within minutes.
For large outside gigs/stadiums, the larger PAs obviously are necessary. Bose not made for this. Bose made for the size and volume of venues that seem to be most readily available at this time (under 500 people--excepting Texas as I understand it).
No matter how many clever descriptions are ascribed to other PA systems, the proof is in the pudding. Bose, lightweight, small to cart around, incredible clarity. Gee, that description sounds like my Roland Cube. End of discussion. |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 5:08 am
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Back to the topic at hand- using a Bose L1 for steel guitar. I got my system yesterday, and I plugged into the tonematch directly from my volume pedal. By messing with the 2 eqs I was able to get a very good tone for steel.
Now, this is kind of a big crazy rig to bring along just for steel- but it might be good for me for a couple reasons. I could put the tower at the back of the stage and hear the same thing the audience hears (that is the whole point of these things).
And, maybe this would be a good setup for dobro. I have always had a real hard time hearing my dobro on stage without feedback. This system may do better in that regard. And of course, the steel and dobro would have their own channels tweaked as desired.
I would never consider buying this system as a steel amp, but since I now have one anyway...
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 9:31 am
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| By all means keep us posted on your experience, Lynn, real world research can never be simulated online |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 10:56 am
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| not familiar with any bose stuff really, but has anyone tried playing steel through one of the 'tower' systems? |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jeff Campbell
From:
Knoxville Tennessee, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 11:11 am Amps to try
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I recently had a knee replacement surgery and tried to find a light weight amp to just use around home or small jam session and got a Line 6 Spider 4 amp.
Has 30 watts through a 12" celestion speaker with a good selection of effects. Only problem is all the channels with distortion pre-set in them. It would be nice if there was a way to de-program this mp and make all of them clean or least the ones you want to clean up. I still like my Session 500 and Nashville 112, very hard to beat these amps!!
Last edited by Jeff Campbell on 26 Jul 2012 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 11:43 am
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| thnx jim! you're smart. i'm dumb. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 3:27 pm
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that's ok, chris, we seem to be taking turns...  |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 3:50 pm
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"I`m using my imagination here" Jim dont slaughter me here....
It seems the bose towers look almost alien, Maybe to calm the look down on the compact L1 , It would be nice to have a front of a steel woodstove with an electric flame glowing, Giving it a warmer look with some atmosphere, I must say they sound OK in the smaller audiences... 
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Leonard Imbery
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 27 Apr 2013 4:34 pm Re: Bose L1 Amp for steel guitar
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| Lonnie Terry wrote: |
Been experimenting with the Bose L1 model 11 system with tone match engine for some time now. Although some people write it off as only a wonderfull P A system, which it is of course, typical of Bose quality, however there are dozens of presets and hudreds of parameters to play around with.
Here are my current settings using Mullen RP S10 with Bill Lawrence humbucker direct from vol pedal into the Tone Match
Preset Rickenbacker Bass 4001
ZEQ low 3.0 mid 2.6 high 3
Para eq level 1.0 freq 1564 width 1.9
compression 1 thresh -18.5 gain 13.8
modulation chorus 1 mix 38% depth 27%
delay type digital mix 10% time319.2 ms
reverb mix41% bright 50%
rev type medium time1.70 balance 50%
I'm not quite there yet but getting pretty close to the desired tone.
Any one out there with alternate settings ? |
I plan on using my L1 system for my pedal steel...Have you revised any of these settings to make it work better for you?....or are you still using the L1? |
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