New players' Universal dilemma!

Claire Winter · From: Washington, USA

After just a couple of weeks on an old Sierra E9, I fell madly in love with pedal steel!! Being 65 I know I need to learn it right the first time, so after polling this forum decided to learn on universal tuning.

Thanks to b0b's links to manufacturers and copedents, I did a fair bit of research so that I could order my dream Universal 12 guitar; that's when I hit the "new player's dilemma": read the next paragraph.

Many of the manufacturers don't publish a U-12 chart, instead focusing on custom orders. Of those that DO publish one, although most of the TUNING of the strings was the same, NO TWO SETUPS WERE THE SAME, varying considerably!! The new player suddenly realizes that there is no "universal setup", like a typical E9 setup, from which to begin learning.

So I took it upon myself to create an Excel spreadsheet through which I compared and analyzed over a dozen different universal setups, ranging from "stock" tunings from several manufacturers to several big names (Anderson, Perlowin, Beck, etc.) as well as several of my fave E9 players (we miss you Papa John). I reduced this further down to 7 copedents that shared the most common U-12 string tuning.

Though I feel better educated to decide on a personal U-12 copedent, I still realize the risk that I don't have a lot of experience--which makes me a bit nervous. So once again I gratefully turn to experienced players for sage advice. I have just a couple questions, one at a time, and would welcome all perspectives. Here's the first:

The "C" pedal, or P3: in E9 this provides an important minor inversion combined with the "B"/P2 pedal, but personally I've never much liked the parallel 4th movement--and there are many times I want to pull just the E to F# without the C# tagging along. With several of the universal setups, there are now more minor inversions available for slides--for example the G#-to-G pull, or in my case adding a string #5/B pull on P4 to C-natural that, combined with P2 G#-A gives an alternative minor inversion with the 3rd on top.

So: am I crazy to ditch the C# on P3?? Are there more uses for the traditional C pedal than I know about? All but one Uni copedent (non-standard tuning) has the traditional P3, so that makes me nervous. Foremost I want the freedom of passing/leading tones between chords/intervals, and have all but decided to give up this traditional E9 minor inversion to have the D#-to-F# movement in half steps under the B interval: this I am already using a lot. I can always add the C# pull later, I realize, but am curious about it's use anyway and your experience with it.

Thanks for any opinions! Sorry about the long post but this is complicated stuff! I've REALLY appreciated your generosity in spending some of your time helping out a passionate newcomer! If anyone is curious, I'd be happy to share my Excel spreadsheet "round-up" of universal setups. Thanks again, Bob!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd keep the C#. The C pedal is really an important part of the E9 tuning.
Or you could use Reece's Bb6, which doesn't even have a C pedal unless you're me or David Wright. To quote Fo'Bro Richard Sinkler, it's not so much the note as how you get there.

PS: Combining P2 and P4? P4 is a long reach for the right leg. I do it sometimes, but I'm a goofball.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Claire Winter · From: Washington, USA

Oops: I misread my own scribble! The P4 B to C-natural combined with (in my case) LKR E to F gives me an F minor (not with the P2 as mistakenly noted above).

Thanks for pointing that out, Lane, (I'm too new at this) and thanks for your response: duly noted!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

By the way, I share your dislike, in general, for the parallel fourth movement.
But it rarely sees service in such a manner as to hear it move like that.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

The C pedal (with the B pedal) is also great for playing harmonized scales. I think strings 4+6 are sweeter than the same intervals played on strings 3+5, but that's just my opinion.

I'd recommend starting out with the standard copedant, and if you still don't like the pedal in a year or so....then change it. It's a pedal that both Buddys, Lloyd, Papa John and Jaydee use effectively, so I'm sure you be able to find some good use for it.

John Alexander · Posted 18 Jul 2012 11:04 pm

This thread may be of interest (especially Jerry Hayes' comments):

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=193984&view=previous&sid=5f16bb141bd7418d5845ddea9b88f95c

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

If you're not sure, you can put the raise on the B string, and loosen the tuning nut so it does nothing.
Also, you can retune the normal C pedal so it raises B to C.

David Wright · From: Pilot Point ,Tx USA.

note on Bb 6 ,,, you can get the c pedal change by playing strings 2.3.5..and hitting pedals A & B ...... did it for years, until i put the c pedal on, truer sound with the C pedal, Very Happy

Claire Winter · From: Washington, USA

Thanks, guys: you're the best! I jumped on that thread, John, and found it very interesting indeed, especially Zane's comments about pedal "ABC" nomenclature.

Of interesting note, I was able to duplicate Hughey's "Look At Us" entire accompaniment--note for note--without the C# with the F#; since I have the G#-G natural on LKV I can emulate that same movement/sound another way. AND I can use the E-F# with new freedom (sans C#).

Just ONE of the amazing things about PSG, and about universal especially, is that it's SO flexible. A good acid test on a new copedent is to see if you can play all the old licks and also get some new sounds as well. BTW I have Hughey's string 1/2 D#/F# to E/G# on my LKR: now THAT'S a movement against strings 3/4 I just can't do without!

Thanks again, guys!!

Larry Phleger · From: DuBois, PA

I like Jeff Newman's U12 copedent. It is available at the Jeffran college website
http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php
You can use instructional material for both the E9 and C6 on this copedent. for C6 you need to remember you are i fret flat when playing any standard tableture. This copedent is actually E9/B6. You get the B6 tuning when lowering strings 4 and 8 from E to Eb. Smile

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

Claire, since you are still new to the PSG, take a good look at Zane King's tuning. Since you haven't formed hard memory of the reentrant "chromatic" strings 1&2, his sequential tuning will be easier for you to learn than for someone who's used to the standard Nashville tuning.

Order some extra pull rods and bellcranks with your guitar, so you can set up different pulls and try them, just adding and removing by the tunylon nuts.

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