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Topic: Gradually going pickless |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 30 Jun 2012 8:23 pm |
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Over the last few months, I've become less and less dependent on using fingerpicks because I find I am able to articulate a lot of the stuff I'm playing much better. I am still using a thumb pick, though, but the fingerpicks are going on less and less these days.
I work a lot on my picking technique and try to sort out every possible way of playing things. I like to have the freedom to be able to improvise and not have to worry about my picking limitations so much to the point where I can't let the ideas flow.
That said, I practice and incorporate a lot of patterns and permutations of scales, like many Jazz players do. For example, if you listen to John Coltrane and many of the post-Bop players, you hear a lot of this kind of stuff--lots of intervallic playing and a lot of symmetrical patterns based on scales like the diminished, etc. I use sources like Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns quite a bit for ideas. Doing this has really opened things up for me in a sense that I feel like I have broken out of strict position playing, which, while great in styles like Western Swing, can really become too predictable in improvised music, especially on C6. Playing with my fingers has made a lot of these very difficult things easier to play, and definitely cleaner. I feel like my finger blocking is a lot more versatile than pick blocking is and I can get a lot more percussive and explosive with it.
The other thing is, I play a lot of chordal stuff and as I get deeper and deeper into it, it is way easier for me to control my voicings and also use any available finger--I use my ring finger a lot now where I never did before.
I still believe that using fingerpicks was essential in me being able to build better picking technique, especially in playing more traditional styles, but sometimes you just have to follow your own instincts and ears.
Thanks for hearing me out--no gig tonight, and I'm just sitting here enjoying a really productive practice session. 
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 7:52 am
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Very interesting Mike! Over the past year I have been playing without finger picks also. I tried for years but was never very comfortable using them. I am finding that playing without them gives me more confidence and what I sacrifice in attack and tone I more than make up for in right hand dexterity.
After years of playing jazz style guitar using a flat pick and my middle and ring fingers I am finding also that my ring finger has been no problem to "work in" to a fluid picking style.
gary |
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Hugh Holstein
From:
Rohnert Park, California, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 7:56 am
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I'm going through the same thing, I have gotten better with finger picks, but sometimes when I play a quasi Hawaiian style it sounds so smooth without picks I really prefer it like that.
Even my wife just yesterday didn't believe it was me playing on a silly rough draft recording on my iphone.
My double stops are way more accurate, and I like to use my finger tips to block.
when I put finger picks on, it feels like I'm trying to tie my shoes with a pair of crutches. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 8:08 am Re: Gradually going pickless
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
I am still using a thumb pick, though, but the fingerpicks are going on less and less these days.
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But doesn't the thumbpicked string sound different from the fingerpicked string? That is my problem with your method. No picks at all is OK and has many advantages. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 8:18 am
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Doug, the difference is negligible to my ears, because in most cases I am also using my nail to pick the string--to be more exact, a combination of the nail and the flesh. I also compensate by picking pretty hard with the fingers. The Zookie angled thumbpick seems to have a slightly softer attack than other thumbpicks, too.
If I was playing some of the classical pieces that I've heard you play, it might present more of a problem. But I'm not, so I have a little more freedom with my articulation.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 9:14 am
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| I'm doing pickless too. I think it gives much more control over shaping the sound. The challenge for me is to remember that I'm not playing "regular" guitar, on which I have 47 years' experience. The attack angle is different and it calls for a lighter touch... or so it seems to me. |
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Joseph Meditz
From:
Sierra Vista, AZ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 9:46 am
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If you're going to play a steel guitar like a classical guitar why use a thumb pick? Also, why stop at using your ring finger. You can play five note chords when you add your pinky or chiquita.
The main advantage in going pickless is that it makes "pick" blocking effortless and natural.
But with finger picks one can really dig in hard when picking and get that goink goink sound that players of electric six strings do with a plectrum. This would be a nail destroying act for most people.
So, the loss of dynamic and tonal picking range and the peril of breaking a nail are the reasons pickless steel players make up a tiny minority.
Breaking a finger nail is a real concern. James Taylor plays his six string pickless and has a YouTube of his nail care regimen where he puts bonding agents on his nails to strengthen them. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 10:02 am
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I disagree with your statement that "the loss of dynamic and tonal picking range and the peril of breaking a nail are the reasons pickless steel players make up a tiny minority." I feel there is a gain of a wider dynamic and tonal range. Also, I am not that reliant on my nails--in other words, I can make it work with just flesh.
Time will be the judge.
I've gone stretches of years playing electric guitar with nothing but my fingers, and I'm talking about Rock, so I am definitely no stranger to the process. There are so many things I can do with my fingers alone that I could never accomplish with a plectrum. I think the same might be true of the steel. At this time, the thing that drives me is having greater control over the notes I play. I have enough years of using fingerpicks under my belt now to feel comfortable enough to go back at any time.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Joseph Meditz
From:
Sierra Vista, AZ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 10:12 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I disagree with your statement that "the loss of dynamic and tonal picking range and the peril of breaking a nail are the reasons pickless steel players make up a tiny minority." |
OK. Fair enough. It was JMHO. So why then do the vast majority of steelers use picks? |
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Dan Simard
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 10:33 am
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| So why then do the vast majority of steelers use picks? |
Maybe it's because of the origins of the steel player. I come from a pick-less origin (mostly bass, a little bit of classical guitar) and I feel handicapped with finger-picks. I talked about it recently and gave them one more try but I throw them away in anger the last time I played with them. They are so unatural for me...
I also think that I can have more control over the dynamics if I play without picks..
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Tremblay 8 strings |
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William Lake
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 10:48 am
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When I first started, it was on E9th and I had no trouble with picks even though I had never used them before.
However when I started on C6th and tried to play 4 note chords with the extra pick, I went nuts. I felt like I was tripping over myself.
I left the third pick off and after awhile I noticed no difference between the bare finger (with a small amount of nail) and the picks, so the picks went into the parts box and have been there ever since.
To answer the question of why a thumb pick, if you don't use a thumb pick your hand is too high above the strings and palm blocking is pretty sloppy.
I also had the advantage of playing classical guitar for many years and know how to look after my nails.
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Bill |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 12:48 pm
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| Joseph Meditz wrote: |
OK. Fair enough. It was JMHO. So why then do the vast majority of steelers use picks? |
I think that for some (at least this is true in my case) the playing style evolves to a place where it might be more practical to go without. However, I still think that learning to use fingerpicks is important. I'm not sure that I'd be able to do what I'm doing now without ever having used fingerpicks.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links
Last edited by Mike Neer on 1 Jul 2012 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Gleason
From:
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 1:07 pm
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| Whether I use finger picks or not, or how many, is usually determined by the style of music I'm playing. I always use a thumb pick. For non-pedal styles like western swing and Hawaiian, I like just the thumb and two finger picks. For pedal steel, I almost always add a third pick. But often, for playing modern jazz on pedal or non pedal, I use my fingernails instead. That gives me a more subtle articulation. It allows me to use "fingertip blocking", and also allows me to play arpeggiated harmonics, Lenny Breau style, whch I can't do with picks on. |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 2:21 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
I've gone stretches of years playing electric guitar with nothing but my fingers, and I'm talking about Rock, so I am definitely no stranger to the process. There are so many things I can do with my fingers alone that I could never accomplish with a plectrum. |
This is interesting to me, Mike -- I started with banjo, and I switch between banjo and steel in our shows, so I leave my picks on for both. But I recently brought in a new original song where I will play electric guitar, and I have never gotten the hang of a flat pick, so I play guitar without any picks. I get much better control, and I prefer the tone.
I haven't liked my pickless sound on steel, though -- maybe I need to experiment more.
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Peter
---------
www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 3:39 pm
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Apropos of nothing, Mike, I gotta say, every time I read the title of your thread, my brain reads it as
"Gradually going PICKLES"
and I think to myself, "Well, I'M gradually going BANANAS!" 
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 3:49 pm
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
Apropos of nothing, Mike, I gotta say, every time I read the title of your thread, my brain reads it as
"Gradually going PICKLES"
and I think to myself, "Well, I'M gradually going BANANAS!" |
Same here, Jim. I keep thinking I made a typo!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 7:14 pm
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| Joseph Meditz wrote: |
| So why then do the vast majority of steelers use picks? |
I think that they produce a brighter sound and I think that they might be a little faster than bare fingers, like using a spoon to eat your Cheerios. 
I think that bare fingers (no nails) give you more control at the expense of some of the speed and volume (amps weren't that powerful back in the old days.)
I like metal fingerpicks for the old time traditional Western Swing steel guitar sound that I've always loved but could never play during my days as a rocker.
Steve Ahola
P.S. As for dynamic range I think it is easier to play very soft with bare fingertips.
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 1 Jul 2012 7:16 pm
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| When I play single string lines I get too much muting from my fingertips - instead of "dah dah dah dah dah" I get "dt dt dt dt dt dt". |
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James Trout
From:
Louisville, KY
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Posted 2 Jul 2012 5:06 am Stronger Nails
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| If you want to strengthen your nails try using the supplement: Biotin. I buy it at Wal Mart and take one about once a week. It seems like my nails have gotten harder and more importantly they grow quicker. Also, keep some super glue handy. If your nail starts to crack or tear, super glue that baby, sand it down with a nail file and keep maintaining it until it grows out. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2012 4:45 pm
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Supposedly there are a few beauty salons in Nashville with more male clients than female... all the products for "longer, stronger more beautiful nails!" have been out there for a long time - you've just been reading the wrong magazines!
I've played with both nails and picks for a long time, the picks seem more and more necessary as you add drummers and bass to the band... rhythmic definition is one of the harder things to get out of a steel, IMO. I just got a new/old MSA 12-string SuperSlide (Tommy White's!)*, and the string spacing is so close the picks are easier. It came with the bridge and nut to convert to a wider 10-string spacing, but I'll leave it alone for a few months at least, as I am acutely aware of the "change your instrument/pickups/amp/tuning/etc. because ITdoesn't work right" syndrome.
*(I've looked and looked, but apparently the "talent module" doesn't come with it)  |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 3 Jul 2012 7:28 am
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I actually studied classical guitar in college. Because of that I have never been able to get used to picks while playing pedal steel, dobro, or banjo. The only picks I can partially tolerate are the ones with the holes in, that expose the pad of your finger, and only stick out as far as your nails should.
As a classical guitarist, the fingernail length is very critical. Too short and you get too much finger pad in the sound. Too long and the sound becomes thin. Also when they are at the right length, the strength of the nail is at its maximum. Shape is important as well.
For those real serious about going pickless, I recommend a lesson on finger nail length and shaping from a classical guitarist. It will be worth it.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Tim Mech
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 3 Jul 2012 7:57 am
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Pickless is the only way for ME.
As Michael above, I also studied classical guitar for many years...can't shake the urge to use every finger, or not, when needed.
My speed and tone have never suffered.
I like Mike N's direction. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2012 8:30 am
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one reason i never progressed much at classical guitar is my teacher said i had the worse nail shape possible - thin and they curled at the edges and hooked in the middle. i remember reading a Segovia quote when asked what the most important aspect of learning the guitar was and he said, "a goodah nails".
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2012 8:30 am
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Very cool to see this thread... I thought I was alone in forging ahead without picks, but I see that even someone with as much stature as MikeN sees the advantages. I threw away the plectrum for 'straight' guitar 20 years ago (when playing for myself) and the fingers just want to feel the strings with nothing else in the way.
I agree that single-string runs don't fall well... tremolo picking doesn't sound quite the same, to say the least. The big sound of 5-finger block chords makes up for it, though. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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