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Topic: Dobro: What to buy on a budget? |
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 26 Jun 2012 4:35 pm |
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I'm thinking about buying a dobro, but the budget is very tight. I could maybe spend $500 or $600, but not anymore than that. Lots is still up in the air.
Due to various sales this weekend, I could probably get a new Dobro brand, Hound Dog Deluxe, Square neck, with the Fishman pickup already installed, and a semi-hard case (whatever that is), for about $515 plus tax.
I want a pickup installed because I'll need to use the instrument alongside electric guitars and drums. I know from experience that just mic'ing it won't be loud enough.
Would it sound like a Dobro with the Fishman pickup, when played through a good PA; which fortunately is available to me? I don't want the dobro to sound like a lap steel.
Would I also need to buy a preamp or direct box to get the best performance out of the pickup, and because the guitar has no controls for tone or volume?
Bottom line: Is the Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe a waste of money, or a reasonably good instrument for playing live gigs? Is there something else in this price range that's better? |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2012 6:43 pm dobro what to buy on a budget
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| paul the hound dog delux is a good resonator i have a 4000.00 resonator several in the 2000.00 range and i cant tell that much diffrence in their sound so on and so forth now i know ill get a bunch of people disagree and thats fine thats what america is all about thats just like a year or so ago i sent forum member danny bates a cheap johnson resonator i set up with a diffrent cone diffrent nut and saddle and he told me that was the best sounding resonator hes played in awhile you dont have to spend 1000.00-4000.00 to get a good resonator anyway i have 3 hounddog resonators and they play sound great the reason 3 i have one set up for bluegrass one blues and one country with diffrent tunnings and i have a couple students who have hounddogs any way thats my 2 cents |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2012 11:46 pm
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It's true. Will Brown can take a less expensive resonator and make it sound fantastic. I know because I still have the one he did for me and it's a really great sounding guitar.
I've actually only played two (very old) dobros that were better sounding than this guitar. Will really knows his stuff. It has tone for days. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 12:21 am
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Thanks Will and Danny for sharing your thoughts and experience. The Hound Dog seems like a good choice given the budget, but now I've run across info on a moderately priced Gretsch resonator, the Bobtail Deluxe, model G9230. The Gretsch has a Fishman Nashville series bridge pickup, as opposed to the Fishman passive classic series pickup in the Hound Dog. In another thread folks were raving about the Nashville bridge pickup. Not sure which pickup is really better. Any thoughts?
Also, from my reading, it appears a preamp is strongly recommended for either of these Fishman pickups, so there's some more expense to consider. |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 9:30 am dobro what to buy on a budget
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| paul you might want to check out jimmy heffrians web site gold tone makes a mic that sits behind the bridge area on the reso that you can take on and off with out no hassle takes about 5 seconds to take on and off and its got its own preamp etc all you do is hook it up and play it cost appox 180.00 if you dont want to use your fishman with all the added gizmos you can go on and on about what works the best etc and it all boiles down to if you want a desent reso for the price get the hounddog or buy you a cheap johnson for around 200.00 send it to ill put a good cone bridge nut set it up and you will be ready iam not trying to get a reso set up job here i am trying to make a point you can spend 3000.00 for one have to go through the same thing you are going to do with the 500.00 hounddog i hope you see what iam trying to get across here good luck |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 9:46 am
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Will - you have some excellent ideas, but I am out of breath by the time I finish reading your one sentence posts! 
My thoughts:
1. I have been less than impressed with any of these modern Hound Dog models I have played. That's not to say that a good setup with upgraded components wouldn't dramatically improve the sound. As posted earlier, these imported resonators with upgrades can sound pretty good. Here's the real kicker: if the pickup in the Hound Dog is the old Fishman "donut" pickup that mounts underneath the cone, don't waste your money and avoid it all costs.The donut pickup is mediocre at best and an outmoded piece of equipment - I'm surprised Fishman even still offers the thing for sale.
2. I couldn't believe it when I read that this new Gretsch guitar comes equipped with the newer Fishman Nashville pickup in an instrument with a $500 price tag, so I called both Sweetwater and Elderly and it is indeed true. Buying just the pickup at Elderly costs around $190, so when the guy that was helping me said, "so now you know where the money is in the guitar" he hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't expect too much acoustically at first with this axe, but again - upgraded components, like a high end cone from Beard, Quarterman, or Scheerhorn could get one part of the way down the road toward a silk purse from a sow's ear. I'm not much of an f-hole guy, but I kind've like the looks of the Gretsch with the white headstock plate.
I really need to have a resonator for plugged-in playing, but I have been reluctant to put the Fishman Nashville pickup in my Clinesmith for fear of diminishing the acoustic qualities of the guitar.
3. If you can find one used at a good price and you'd have to really stretch the budget to include the Fishman Nashville pickup (not to mention the Fishman Aura Jerry Douglas pedal, which makes all the difference - and yes - you also need a preamp), there's no way you can beat a Gold Tone/Beard or a Wechter/Scheerhorn.They cost more new, but they are also the state-of-the-art when it comes to the modern wood-bodied imported squareneck resonator guitar. From what I've tried, nothing else in the "entry level" price ranges can even touch them.
That said, I am very intrigued by this new imported Gretsch which already includes the Nashville pickup.
_________________
Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 27 Jun 2012 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 9:47 am
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Will: I can't find Jimmy Heffrian's website. I'm not familiar with the name and don't know the name of his company. Can you clarify. Thanks for the further info.
I've become aware of two different clip on condenser mics that can work for acoustic guitars, and probably a resonator guitar: DPA 4099G ($600 and discontinued), and Audio Technica Pro 35 (About $140 on line).
Anyone have experience with either of these mics? |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 10:00 am
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Mark: Your comments are most welcome. I kinda thought the Gretsch might be a step up from the Hound Dog. The on line price is the same for both guitars ($499), but the Hound Dog can be bought this coming weekend for 15% off at Guitar Center. But if the pickup in the Hound Dog is inferior, then the Gretsch is probably worth the extra money.
This is rapidly becoming too expensive, but maybe someday I'll have some decent paying gigs.
Regarding preamps: Everyone says the Jerry Douglas Signature Aura Imaging pedal, Pro-AIP-JD1, is the way to go. But that costs about $290 on line. And it doesn't say anything about DI capabilities that I can see.
What about the Fishman Pro-Eq Platinum Preamp/EQ/DI, Pro-PLT-101? It only costs $150, and it has lots of eq, and DI. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 10:12 am
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| The Gold Tone ABS mic system looks pretty good. I suspect it would work well in most situations, and give the best tone. But there would probably be times when an installed pickup is still needed. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 10:26 am
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Paul, if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a bunch more. Below is a link to a video from the Beard shop in Maryland from a few years ago with Jimmy Heffernan trying out his Beard Mike Auldridge Signature guitar after the new Fishman was installed. It certainly works decently without the JD Pedal - a huge improvement over the dreaded "donut", but it would be something to save in the piggy bank for down the line, because the optimum combo includes the Douglas pedal.
Bear in mind that the guitar itself retails for $3700 when watching the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O15iC4-_yGs&feature=plcp
_________________
Mark |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 10:50 am
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| Great video Mark. Thanks for the link. That sure is a good set-up. |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 11:43 am dobro what to buy on a budget
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| Mark hi anyway when i am writing . i dont have time to stop. when i have my train of thought going. i have to keep going or i lose it. but anyway thanks for pointing that out. when i was in the service you should have seen my morse code. you thought it was a teletype going off. ha ha any way i gave my 2 cents and thats it for me. just trying to help Paul .check it out i found the key. anyway have a good day. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 11:50 am
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We have all kinds of different writers on the forum so write away! Variety is the spice of life, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and so forth and so on.
Just don't buy a dobro with a Fishman donut pickup in it... 
_________________
Mark |
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Warren Pederson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 4:22 pm
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| I'd get one of the new Gretsches. I just found out about them today, I think I'll order one and trade my Beaver Creek in. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 27 Jun 2012 4:30 pm
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After you receive the guitar, we'll need a full report, Warren!
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Mark |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 7:10 am
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Paul,
In my experience, the ABS mic system won't overcome drums and electric guitars before feedback, at least not in a common small stage setting with the guitar amplified using a backline amp or ran through mains and folded back through monitors.
I've not looked at any of the newer lesser expensive guitars mentioned but drew the line in the sand several years back at the point of the Beard Gold Tone. I've been extremely pleased with it's performance although I've not played any higher end models to compare it with.
I'm installing a new spider with the Fishman bridge pickup this morining! It'll get used with the Aura pedal which is a must as far as I can see for getting out the "quack".
Just wanted to share my experience with the Gold Tone ABS mic. It sounded fine and affords one some movement compared to staying behind a mic stand, but is really no different than any other mic and won't work loud enough against drums/amplifiers.
Good luck, Paul. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 8:46 am
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Yeah, that has been my understanding regarding that unit. It's still a microphone, it just gives you the freedom to move around. Fine for an acoustic-oriented performance but in a mixed electric/acoustic band and including a drum kit - you're maybe not any better off than if you were playing into an SM-57.
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...but drew the line in the sand several years back at the point of the Beard Gold Tone. I've been extremely pleased with it's performance although I've not played any higher end models to compare it with.
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For anyone that has been into resonators for awhile the following is fairly obvious, but for those new to the subject I've found it isn't very obvious at all. Gold Tone/Beard, or Beard Gold Tone, is not a lower model of a Beard. It's a Gold Tone Paul Beard Signature model. It's what an Epiphone acoustic built in China is as compared to a Gibson acoustic built in Montana. I know some of the retailers sell them as "Beard Gold Tone" and I think this causes some confusion for the newbie. The main competition for these guitars is the Wechter/Scheerhorn line, which nobody refers to as the Scheerhorn/Wechter. Actually, I have heard that a couple times. I had someone ask me awhile back, "what's the difference between the Scheerhorn/wechters and the ones that are just called Scheerhorn?" My answer was, "oh, about ten thousand dollars."
Paul Beard designs the Gold Tone guitars, but they are built at a factory in China by the Gold Tone company, which is headquartered in Florida. A percentage of the guitars are shipped to the Beard shop in Maryland for final setup and assembly. The ones that are have a sticker inside the guitar which can be seen by pointing a flashlight through the bass side screen hole, indicating they were "finished" in Maryland. These are typically the ones you want. Others are fine I'm sure the vast majority of the time, but the episodes we have come across where there has been some problem with the guitar have been the non-Beard shop Gold Tones.
I recall several years ago there was a thread here after the new Gold Tone Beards were being shown at Scotty's convention in St. Louis and a member was commenting about the "new lower priced Beards" and how that were a good deal. Yeah they're a good deal - because they're made in China - not at the Beard shop in Maryland. Nice guitars that they are, most players will notice the difference immediately in a side-by-side comparison.
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Mark |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 9:34 am
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Mark, perhaps in the future I'll refer to it only as a "Gold Tone"? Hopefully anyone about to buy a 7 or 8 hundred dollar reso understands it's not a handbuilt guitar.
I think some followers of the thread will appreciate your clarification of the Gold Tone/Beard resonator guitar build details.
I purchased the guitar understanding it was built in china but set-up at the Beard facility. I figured this was a good trade off and the best bang for the buck at my budget for an instrument that I wasn't sure I would play long term or not.
I edited my "gear list" footer to reflect the proper name.  |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 10:16 am
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Please call it whatever you like, it's your money and still a free country. I brought it up for educational purposes only.
A lot of long-time pedal steel players for a variety of reasons have elected to take up dobro in the past several years after having little or no interest previously. the Gold Tone Beard/Beard Gold Tone thing is a piece of nomenclature along the lines of something like "push/pull." If one is new to pedal steel they wouldn't have the slightest idea what guys are referring to here when they bring up "push/pull."
As far as "hopefully anyone about to buy a 7 or 8 hundred dollar reso understands it's not a handbuilt guitar." You saw my example above from posts made at Scotty's convention a number of years ago.
No reflection on anyone participating in this thread, but we all know the definition of "assume."
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Mark |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 10:57 am
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Your point is well received, Mark.
Back to Paul's thread... |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 12:36 pm Re: dobro what to buy on a budget
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| Will Brown wrote: |
| Mark hi anyway when i am writing . i dont have time to stop. when i have my train of thought going. i have to keep going or i lose it. but anyway thanks for pointing that out. |
I like it better when you leave out the periods! When we are talking there may be pauses but there are no punctuation marks unless we do those ridiculous looking double-quotes with our fingers. 
Steve
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 12:59 pm
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All resonators sound great. Everybody should have at least 3 of them and a few lap steels too.  |
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Ron Wright
From:
Modesto,CA
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Posted 28 Jun 2012 5:08 pm
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Paul I too am looking for a good square neck reso with a pickup installed. i have a round neck with a external PU , to much noise, mostly from my clumbsy playing
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