Is this considered cheating?

Dan Simard · From: Quebec, Canada

I was practicing slants the other day when I came up with that little study : http://youtu.be/8wK_QQi8Q3E

At first, I played it on two strings only but then, I realized that I could play it on three strings to have more complete chords.

I'm in C6, if I do a forward slant starting on the 5th string and fret 15, I have approximately a A7 (G, C#, E). Because I'm slanting, the C# is not exactly on the pitch if I slant correctly so I have to "cheat" each note so they all sound OK.

Do you have example of people "cheating" like this? Is this a big no-no?

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

JFC!, that video was pathetic, both painful to watch and listen to, a total exercise in what NOT to do. Whatever you're trying to do, cheating or not, can't be worse than that, unless that's your video. If so, STOP, and learn proper basics and fundamentals, and take that video down.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Right on RON ! Pathetic.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Wow... you guys are harsh! Dan is learning and is trying to improve. I've heard a lot worse playing than his.

Anyway... when slanting, swivel the bar within your hand. Do not grasp the bar and twist your wrist. Also... try using a round bar instead of the Stevens bar. If you do use the Stevens bar, don't keep your finger pressed into the slot when you slant. Just use the fingertip in the slot. The point is, don't twist your wrist when you slant. The hand should stay in the same basic position and the fingers (or thumb) swivel the bar within the hand. Keep at it, you'll get it!
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Brian Henry · Posted 7 Jun 2012 2:53 am

Ron and George,

I think your unkind comments are uncalled for. This forum is a place for us all to learn , regardless of what stage we are at. Why not share some of your knowledge like Doug has done instead of condemning the attempts of a sincere learner? You disappoint me!
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Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Brian Henry · Posted 7 Jun 2012 4:22 am

Perhaps it would have been wiser to have initially referred Dan to your teaching website instead of condemning him first.
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Dan Simard · From: Quebec, Canada

Donald Rooke · From: Toronto, Canada

This makes me sick. To misquote Woody Allen, I wouldn't want to join a club in which Ron is a member. Unconscionably rude, non-supportive arrogance.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Don, you've got to understand that something that bad can't be glossed over, and might not believe how often bad playing/technique is ignored or even applauded here. With all the varied info/tools available on the net and elsewhere it would seem virtually impossible not to learn proper technique and have whatever you need, but I guess anything is possible.
You really have to start over and forget what you've learned so far. Doing it all correctly is no harder than what you've already done, but good taste may be more difficult for some to acquire. Tone is one important point that many somehow are oblivious of.

And Donald, you know what they say about the door, right?

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Dang!...seems like somebody living in Paradise shouldn't be that mean and cranky. Rolling Eyes

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the hammock on the beach?...Late for the luau?... Parrot pooped in your poi?...Too long since you got lei'd?...

It's okay to be the keeper of the flame, but do you have to keep it just incinerate the noobs?

Now where's the "shaka braddah" emoticon when you need it?... Smile

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Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i havent watched the video, i'm scared to....

but look - everyone that has attempted slants has to go through a painful phase, (still am actually). what i often see are players using natural reasoning / trial and error to figure out how to do it....seems so basic, you just twist the bar, right... - but guess what - someone has already figured it out to perfection and you dont need to reinvent the wheel here. maybe thats what Ron is referring to - ie the correct info is easily available, its no "pro secret".

Ron's site has some excellent tips and you need to realize that Jerry Byrd (& many other golden era steelers) figured this out many many years ago. years ago, slants were taught beginning on the 3-4th lesson as soon as the student could hold the bar - as they were so critical.

i would also concentrate on getting 2 slant notes first. 3 note slant chords are nice, but the deeper i get into steel, i realize that neither you nor the listener need to be force-fed 3 note chords, we can often "hear" the underlying harmony just fine.
i mainly use slant 3 note chords for dominant chords that only last a beat or 2, they are already dissonant so a little bit off doesnt effect the intonation. in other words, the ear quickly picks up a major triad slant as out where the dominant is passable.
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William Lake · From: Ontario, Canada

Dan, email me your address and I will send you a nice Clayton bullet bar. I don't use it anymore as I have gone to 6 string steel and the Jerry Byrd Dunlop works for me. It looks like you are playing an 8 string so this bar will work for you.

Bill

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Dan, follow Doug's advice above. Many of us, me especially, have been in the same boat. I guarantee I sounded much worse than your video not only when I started, but even after I'd been playing for a while. It is not easy to learn on your own.

Don't let the rude comments get in your head or stop you from posting. We were all beginners at one time--not all of us had the luxury of a teacher. Playing steel guitar well takes a lot of work. But the more work you put into learning and getting your technique together, the more rapid your advances will be.
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Dan Simard · From: Quebec, Canada

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I don't feel my comments were rude, they were said to make the proper impact, just as I was taught. Facts and instruction don't always come with a pretty bow on them, and I appreciated the hard knocks I took because I recognized how right the words were. There's no room for BS when learning steel, get it right or do something else, and most pertinent, don't perpetuate bad playing.

Paul DiMaggio · From: Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxIU8u2gko is probably one of the better videos for slants. Georgeboards has one too. The technique for forward slants with a bullet bar or a Stevens bar is the same. Reverse slants with most Stevens bars are a little different.
Carry your bar with you, when you have a moment in the day hold it in your hand, practice the slanting movements, get used to the feel of it in your hand. That sounds weird, but it works.
Teachers are hard to come by in Canada, so if you can find one ,in person or on Skype, that is the best investment. Skype isn't the same as being there but it has the advantage of being recordable.
Keep at it and you will do fine.

Jon Nygren · From: Wisconsin, USA

Just keep at it Dan and don't sweat it. Take Doug and Mikes advice. I actually think your video is pretty typical for a newb starting out on those slants- they are tough, but once you get the right technique down, things will come easier. You're actually making it tougher than it needs to be.

The bullet will help. There are a few folks who can make a stevens work for slants(Kayton Roberts)...but it's the last thing i'd recommend for someone starting out.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I use those same slants when I play C6th. They are hard to play in tune, but very effective when done properly. It's impressive that you figured them out.

Dan has asked that this topic be closed, so I'm closing it. Also, I suggest that people could be gentler and more constructive in their criticism. The written word is a cold, harsh medium. Imagine you are the other person, reading what you just wrote. It can sting. Sad

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Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Unfortunately the written word is unable to provide the same context that actual physical communication can provide. We have probably all written things that have been taken the wrong way - I'm certainly guilty of that.
However, Ron, the way you provided feedback would certainly be discouraging to a new player. Rather than just asking him to stop and take the video down, why not offer suggestions on how to play better? What positive feedback could you offer him?
Without having seen the video, your comments read to me as insulting and very negative.
I don't often comment on videos even by experienced players such as Kay Das (to name one). That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort it takes to put such videos out there.
Think before you post. Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
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