C6th Steel Not Too Popular With Today's Players

Dave A. Burley · From: Franklin, In. USA

Back in the early seventies when I first started producing some pedal steel concerts, the most exciting time during those concerts or Jamfest's as we called them was the time that all players got on the stage at the same time and jammed jazz tunes. It seems to be a completely different world almost 40 years later. Back in the day we would take Chalker, Emmons, Jernigan, Tharpe, Maurice Anderson along with Jimmy Bryant out on the road and do six hour jamfests. Even the strickly E9th players really got in to the C6th jamming. What's happened? When I look at up to date pictures of bands the steel players are usually playing a one neck guitar. Most talk here on the Forum is about E9th. Chalker told me back in 76 that when the Cavalcade Of Guitars was released that it would probably sell over 10,000 albums. Not so today. It was released last year and today's pickers just don't want to listen to C6th even though the best are the one's playing.
I have eight of the Cavalcade Of Guitar cd's left and when they are gone that will be it.
Thanks for all of the support I have had from many of you. It was a labor of love back in the seventies when I ran up and down the highways promoting those concerts, broke and barely making it from one town to the other. What an honor to work with the best in the business and to record some things will be around forever for you all to listen to. Someday I might write a book about those few years, especially when I promoted the concert with Les Paul and the other jazz guitarists along with the five great pedal steel players. That is the Cavalcade Of Guitar's album. How did it all happen getting all of those greats together for a recording and concert in a club in Dallas, Texas? You probably wouldn't believe it.
Anyway....I have enjoyed some of the greatest steel guitar playing in the world for forty or fifty years and will continue enjoying it.
Dave A. Burley
Dab Products
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Dave A. Burley
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Franklin · Posted 28 May 2012 3:58 am

Dave,

I disagree........Do you even know the newest giants working behind the new Country artists? Its as popular with this generations best players as it was with the last generations.....Wayne Dahl, Travis Toy, Bryan Dixon, Randle Currie are four of the new giants that wear out that tuning at the highest level of proficiency. Let alone from my generation...Randy Beavers, Tommy White, Mike Smith, Terry Crisp, Randy Reinhard, Jim Loesberg, Mike Cass, Zane King, Mike Johnson, Danny Sneed, Jim Cohen, Dave Easley, Johnny and Joan Cox, and on and on....I'd say it has not lost ground....D10's are still outselling single necks by a country mile.

With all due respect there were just as many E9th only guys back in the 60's as there are today.....Living here I don't see much of a change beyond players becoming more musically diverse to survive.......Most Country guys chose Lloyd's direction, to play the tuning that pays the bills. Hughey called it the Kroger neck.

Paul

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Christopher Woitach · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I know I'm an unusual case, but I haven't had much interest in the E9 neck from the first. My focus on the steel has been playing jazz on the Bb6 12 string. My friend Pete Burak likes to say that he's the only one who ever touches my A & B pedals - not exactly true, but close!
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Dave A. Burley · From: Franklin, In. USA

I guess maybe I have been out of the loop too long although.............Back in the seventies when I was doing a lot of traveling, I always tried to find the country bands. I heard a lot of C6th. Not really Jazz but a lot of C6th. Today I still travel a lot but I am not hearing much C6th although I do see a lot of double neck steel guitars. To be honest, even on E. Broadway in Nashville if I want to hear some C6th I have to ask the player to do some. To me C6th just doesn't seem to be used a lot today in the real world. The new players that Paul mentioned I have never heard of. I am familiar with all of the older ones. Paul is living in a different world where he is exposed to all the new steel players whereas I am still pounding the old roads listening to country music at the clubs and shows. Back in the seventies I gravitated to the C6th players, known or unknown. I really am not finding them today. Back in the seventies I knew dozens of steel players who played good C6th in my home state and Paul's home state, Michigan. I still visit Michigan often and to be honest, I can't call one steel players name that play's on the C6th neck. It is a treat though when I can visit Nashville and catch Paul at the Station Inn with the TimeJumpers.
Thanks,
Dave A. Burley
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Dave A. Burley
P.O. Box #211
Franklin, Ind. 46131

Buddy Emmons/Jimmy Bryant live $15.00 includes shipping.
It's The First Time(studio)$15.00 includes shipping.
Curley Chalker/Julian Tharpe live $15.00 includes shipping.
the Cavalcade Of Guitars live $16.00 includes shipping.
Pay by PayPal to: dab7875159@aol.com

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I won't argue with Paul on what he knows and sees in Nashville with the road pickers.

But, looking at posts on the forum the SD-10 seems to be very popular; leading me to also believe there are not as many C6th pickers as there used to be.

I also see people with a D-10 but the C6th neck is an "arm rest".

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

You mean you can actually play the back neck? Hooda thunk it. Guess I'll have start putting my beer and sandwich somewhere else. Laughing

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Anthony Locke · From: Texas, USA

I play almost all C6 stuff, and have noticed too that E9 seems more popular. I love the traditional E9 styles, but I have always gravitated more to the C6 and jazz, swing, music as far as playing goes. Maybe it's because I started playing on a console steel and had a C6 on there for years before I even considered pedals.

With my band The Skeleton Keys, we play jazz, swing, and bop tunes exclusively, in an "old school" style...Alvino Rey, Vance Terry, Curly Chalker, Rico Turchetti. Although there are that nights the audience is sparse, people seem to be becoming more aware of the pedal steel in that type of setting, even if they don't realize it's the C6 neck they are hearing.

That being said, I will veer off topic for a second to say I think it's great that people play steel guitar in a variety of musical styles, genres etc. There is a place for steel in any style of music.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i think of e9 as the 'dumb' neck and c6 as the 'smart' neck. i'm pretty dumb but i try to be smart some of the time.

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Jeff Newman said in his C6th video that the "smart neck" was actually easier to master than the dumb one. I didn't believe it but I loved his encouragement.
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CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

when i got my first real psg 10 years ago, i got a D10
never had played on C6 but dabbled on E9
well now that i've come up some, C6 is really a great neck w: all kinds of styles
great for Maj7 chords & Jazz of course, but great for Blues & Rock too
E9 is also a great tuning w: tremendous potential if one can get away from the Country Clichés & seek out different positions/pivots & the low register
Guys like Rick Schmidt blow me away on " out of the box " E9 amongst others of course.. Winking

2 necks are better than one
& i do play'em both

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Bryant Aycock · From: Pikeville, North Carolina

I'm not too proficient on C6th, but I really like to play around with it. C6th is not only a tuning, it's an attitude. You have to think in C6, and so does your back-up players. Altho the traditional sound I like is mainly E9th, I like having a D10 and now I practice as much on C6 as I do E9.
Bryant

David Zornes · From: Ohio, USA

I'm about the only C6 player in my area; with the exception of Chubby Howard-so far as I know. I enjoy playing both necks, but when it's show time; it's the C6!

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

When I play with commercial country bands it's almost all E9; probably about 95%. But when I play with country swing bands (which is often), or blues bands (which is rare), I probably play at least 50% of the tunes on C6th. I would love to have a smaller, lighter steel, but I have too much musical territory to cover to give up on the D10.

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

My 3 cents..being primarily an E9th guy, the C6th tuning has never really been my go to neck, for various reasons., but I do practice on this tuning.

I totally agree that the C6th tuning is alive and well but...

a couple of things come to mind..

Many of us play cover tunes in the fashion of Strait , Jackson, Merle, Buck etc...so we study the upper ten...that's not a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing. It's how we become more proficient as a player .

AND

There is not a lot of exposure with other musicians that we play with that can handle the arrangements of a swing based tune or even a jazz standard...so we stay close to what our "band scenario" is. In some cases some of the players we work with are a detriment to these styles...

If a local band does not play swing or a few standards, then we will always stay on the top neck and our opinion may be that the lower ten music is dead, quite the opposite. If we are not playing music with a band that can cut those songs..then it's absent, not dead.

Another thing comes to mind, many studying E9th players approach the C6th tuning in the open position which makes everything sound like it just came out of Hawaii.

A studying Steel player can only pull off on the bandstand what the rest of the band can do...if we see a quality player, it may very well be that he or she can cut a few really nice things on the lower ten but also realize it may never happen with the band they are in...which is E9th major key , 3 chords from 9:30 to 1:30. Stella by Starlight may never get on the set list !

Most of today's local scene music ends up being about the singer or a band that is trying to emulate Jason Aldean, etc..that's not necessarily a bad thing but it does define what we are going to hear in the clubs...Most of the guitar players are Chicken Pickin' or Rockin out with 5 effects pedals...that kinda dictates whats going to happen musically...Locally, everyone migrates to the guitar player, he owns the band and the music...

that's all I got..
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Ray DeVoe · From: Hudson, FL

I usually do not reply to threads like this as there are many higher level players covering all aspects of the topic.

In my opinion, one of the items thats driving more players towards a single 10 or sd 10, is strictly weight. There is a very large group of older players these days and the overall drive is towards carrying as light of equipment as possible. This relates to amps as well as steels. Chances are good that most players you see performing out with a single neck, will have at least one double neck set up at home.

As most players know, outside of the main or stronger "country music" area's, the overall music scene is quickly changing. There are many areas today where you will not even find steel players in so called country bands. Taking it even one step farther, In some areas, its hard even to find a "whole" band. There are so many one and two people acts out there with electronic back up tracks that bands in general are on the endangered list. If a steel player can find work in this type of environment, he is usually not the "featured" instrument and a single 10 gets by nicely.

Thats my take on it for whatever its worth.

Ray D
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I've been thinking the same as Ray lately. You see posts all the time about reducing weight particularly among us older guys.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to be without a C neck. I use it as much as possible depending on the situation. Steel club shows feature at least a half dozen tunes per set.

Gigs, mainly the swing stuff but the guys always encourage me to do a couple pop/jazzy/big band things too.

I figure when I get too feeble to tote a D10, I'll just stay home.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I personally don't have a "C" neck but by dropping the 4th and 8th strings on either of my 12 stringers I do have a "B" neck.... I think that if a person plays in a band that only does three chord songs, he (or she) can play the C neck if they want to. Just listen to Chalker's "Big Hits on Big Steel" album for some good examples. Maybe even split your backup between both necks and most of the time the band will like it......... But I still like the old E9th neck much better. Listen to an old cut like John Hughey's work on Conway Twitty's "Lost in the Feeling" or Vince Gill's "Look At Us" or Paul's work on "When I Call Your Name"... you can just feel the emotion. I don't think I've ever heard anything on C6th that had any of that type of emotion in it, have you?......JH in Va.
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Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · From: Greenwell Springs, Louisiana (deceased)

Just based on my own experiences and travels (from the 70s to present day) it looks to me that C6th is not only alive and well, but flourishing and going on as strongly as ever. Smile

I've always had a double neck with the purest intentions of learning C6th, but I've never gotten around to it. Embarassed

Although I only play E9th myself, I sometimes watch this old video of Gary Hogue and Junior Knight playing "Wild Side Of Life":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWUmy96jfQM

At about 2:45 Gary plays a nice little C6th ride on it that always makes me want to get busy and finally start learning C6th. Very Happy

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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Lately I have noticed too many "softies" on the forums ! Razz

On the guitar forums they are all complaining that Twin Reverbs weigh too much, over here , D10's weigh too much. Question

Ok, get a grip..I have a D10 and a Twin Reverb..I'm probably older than many here..
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · From: Greenwell Springs, Louisiana (deceased)

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

thanks for quoting tony. since his original post was an inch above yours, we may not have seen it.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

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