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Topic: Thinking of grabbing a second PSG. Recommendations? |
Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 21 May 2012 2:14 pm |
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I'm trying to keep it in the <=$1,500 range for a S10 (or SD10, I guess) of some sort. I'm still pretty new to playing PSG, so I could use all the practice time I can get... but I'm learning that I'm pretty bad about setting up and tearing down the guitar after every weekend of gigging.
Right now I'm doing all my gigging with a Sho-Bud Pro I. Nice sounding guitar and all, but ultimately there are two problems with this approach: 1) I'd like to keep a gigging steel and then keep a practice steel set up at all times at home, and 2) the Sho-Bud came to me used and isn't quite as well-maintained as I would have liked for it to be. I can get work done on it, but it's a little persnickety sometimes, and I'd just as soon grab a more modern steel to balance it out.
I'm still not sure which one would stay set up at home and which one would be used for the gigging, but my common sense tells me the lighter guitar goes out on the road because I'm also bringing along 3-4 other guitars, another amp, pedalboards, cables, etc. I live on the second floor of an apartment building with no elevator, so I'm getting really sick of lugging everything in and out. If I could leave a steel in the back of the car most of the time, that'd be one less thing to ding up the walls with.
Anyway... suggestions from the peanut gallery? Did a gig last week with a guy who's endorsed by GFI and we were talking a bit about those... used, that would probably fall in my price range. Just got hipped to the BMI Axius guitars too. In fact, right now those are seeming most interesting to me. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 May 2012 3:54 pm
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I like to keep 2 steels ready to go for the same reasons as you. I like them to be as close to identical as possible.
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Bob |
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John Ducsai
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 21 May 2012 4:17 pm
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| Al Udeen just listed a nice Sho-Bud here on the forum in the Steels for sale section - looks pretty nice, in your price range, and in your neck of the woods !!! |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 May 2012 4:40 am
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One thing nice about having a second steel is that you can take the time to get your sho bud worked on or learn how to set it up yourself. It might be fun to get a fixer upper and use it to learn how to work on steels.
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Bob |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 4:42 am
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The new Zum Stage One is almost ready. It will be right in your price range. Super light with triple raises and lowers, and with 5 knees to boot!
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 5:38 am
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I recommend the new Jackson S-10
I'm loving mine. I also loved my stage one (for a little less money than the jackson)
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 6:43 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I like to keep 2 steels ready to go for the same reasons as you. I like them to be as close to identical as possible. ... One thing nice about having a second steel is that you can take the time to get your sho bud worked on or learn how to set it up yourself. It might be fun to get a fixer upper and use it to learn how to work on steels. |
I thought about this long and hard. I only have 3 levers on mine, and could really use a fourth. The Sho-Bud has totally got the vintage-y Sho-Bud thing going, but I would actually like whatever the second one is to be more modern because as I understand it, most of those guitars were designed to solve some of the problems you get with the old-school guitars. And given the amount of gigging I'm doing, I kind of like that idea... a guitar that stays in tune without a ton of cabinet drop or finnicky pedals that isn't too heavy either. I've learned how to do a little setup work already, but yeah... a real pro would do that much better. Not to mention if something breaks I'm in big trouble. I could always take it to Williams to have it gone over and such, but only if I have something else I can gig with in the meantime. I do love that idea, though, and that's the next thing on my to-do list once I get a replacement steel.
| John Ducsai wrote: |
| Al Udeen just listed a nice Sho-Bud here on the forum in the Steels for sale section - looks pretty nice, in your price range, and in your neck of the woods !!! |
Yikes, no levers on that one.
So here's my question about some of these guitars you can buy new for ~$1500 (Jackson, Stage One, Axius, Justice Pro Lite): Are these still pro instruments? I don't want to go bottom-of-the-barrel just to get a second guitar if in the long run I'm going to wish I had gotten something nicer. But if these really are adequate for heavy gigging, I'd rather get something that I won't outgrow as I get better on the instrument. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 7:16 am
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The Jackson is not a student model. Its not a hightly advanced model either, which is why I like it for gigging and hauling around to practices. You might check out the mullen discovery as well.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 7:35 am
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I don't think I need something I can do a ton of copedent tweaking with. I'm fine with the standard Emmons copedent and I'm sure it'll be a long time before I start messing with that. What else do you get with a more advanced model?
It's remarkably difficult to figure out all of this stuff when you're still relatively new to the instrument. I don't even know what to look for, or why people want some of the things they want. As for me, I just need something reliable that sounds good, plays in tune, and isn't too heavy. If I can fly with it, all the better - I've got a China tour coming up later this year and I haven't exactly figured out how I'm going to deal with getting a PSG there. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 May 2012 8:00 am
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Go check out a Williams S10. Full on pro guitar that weighs about the same as many of the new "lite" steels.
Also used Carters and MCIs and a bunch of other S10s that are available on the used market come in under 50 lbs if you are creative about what case you put them in.
Even a Sho Bud S10 on a single body might do the trick.
50lbs seems to be the magic number these days with flying. You might check your airline to China and see what there restrictions are.
_________________
Bob |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 8:04 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Go check out a Williams S10. Full on pro guitar that weighs about the same as many of the new "lite" steels.
Also used Carters and MCIs and a bunch of other S10s that are available on the used market come in under 50 lbs if you are creative about what case you put them in.
Even a Sho Bud S10 on a single body might do the trick.
50lbs seems to be the magic number these days with flying. You might check your airline to China and see what there restrictions are. |
Thanks, that's good to know. I've never taken any instrument that far...
The Williams looks awfully nice, but also costs about 2x what I want to spend. Yikes! |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 8:09 am
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I've owned a 1971 Sho Bud, and an early 60's Fender 2000. Both of which had killer tone and played well. My ownly problems with them was they weighed a ton and it took a long time to set up and tune when I transported them. I wouldn't have any concerns over any of the new steels recommended here. They will all be light, not too expensive and easy to set up and start playing quickly.
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 9:23 am
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If you are doing a lot of fly dates, you really need to get something that works for you that comes in under 50 lbs. I have had no problems flying my S-10 Williams on domestic or international flights. Some of my NYC steel brothers have reported paying as much as $200.00 each way with a D-10.... or worse yet, outbound no charge, but on the same airline $175.00 on the return trip. Better to put more money towards the steel.... not in the airline's pocket.
As far as the 2 steels being the same, I have a different take on that.
1. For sessions, it is really great to be able to offer different tonal flavors to a producer... so more different axes in the arsenal is better.
2. Early on, I was obsessed with everything on all of my guitars being identical, plus identical picks, bars, volume pedals, amps, effects, seats, etc... The downside of this was that on gigs the environmental things that were beyond my control would really bother me and throw off my playing.
Nowadays, I have 3 different guitars set up at home with slightly different copedents, random different picks, bars, seats pedals, amps, etc. It takes about two minutes to adjust, and I am no longer bothered by bad back line amps, uneven or wobbly stages, bad lighting, terrible stage sound, etc..... It made a big difference for me. |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 9:45 am
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| mike nolan wrote: |
If you are doing a lot of fly dates, you really need to get something that works for you that comes in under 50 lbs. I have had no problems flying my S-10 Williams on domestic or international flights. Some of my NYC steel brothers have reported paying as much as $200.00 each way with a D-10.... or worse yet, outbound no charge, but on the same airline $175.00 on the return trip. Better to put more money towards the steel.... not in the airline's pocket.
As far as the 2 steels being the same, I have a different take on that.
1. For sessions, it is really great to be able to offer different tonal flavors to a producer... so more different axes in the arsenal is better.
2. Early on, I was obsessed with everything on all of my guitars being identical, plus identical picks, bars, volume pedals, amps, effects, seats, etc... The downside of this was that on gigs the environmental things that were beyond my control would really bother me and throw off my playing.
Nowadays, I have 3 different guitars set up at home with slightly different copedents, random different picks, bars, seats pedals, amps, etc. It takes about two minutes to adjust, and I am no longer bothered by bad back line amps, uneven or wobbly stages, bad lighting, terrible stage sound, etc..... It made a big difference for me. |
Your points in #2 are pretty much exactly how I feel. I'm a little newer to steel, but certainly not new to playing live music. Sometimes I have to laugh at the other guitar players I see posting on forums because their world of amazing basement tone has such little application to real life playing, and yet they're the guys who'll pontificate about it the most. That "can't play without MY TONE!" attitude, or whatever. I'm a huge proponent of the idea that because every stage is different, and every crowd is different, no two gigs will be the same. Getting thrown off by that stuff is so avoidable.
I know that no matter what I'm holding out for a 3x4 or a 3x5 this time, so right out of the gate, my right knee is going to be doing something different between both guitars. If I manage to get a 4th pedal, same deal. I don't want them to sound or feel the same because for me half the time when I start getting into a rut it's because I've gotten too familiar with the control surface and we're playing the same songs over and over. If I can't swap out all the songs, I can always change guitars, and that usually helps jog me into approaching the music a little differently.
As for flying, I don't do many fly dates, thankfully. That's not my primary concern, but lugging whatever I grab up and down multiple flights of stairs 2-3 times a week is definitely just as good of a reason to aim for a lighter guitar. I'm still really leaning toward the Axius, but I can't find a lot of information about them. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 22 May 2012 9:50 am Steel in China
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| Atom, what is your itinerary for China? You might be able to go to some places by train. If not, you really do need to go with something light if you are flying all over the place. I've been in Beijing 16 years. It is a city of 16 million and I and some Chinese musician friends have never seen another pedal steel guitar here. Some good suggestions have already been made about the older or newer Stage One, Williams, etc. If you can get a used Excel S-10, they are light and hold up well. I've had several Excels here at various times. Good luck stevet |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 9:59 am Re: Steel in China
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| steve takacs wrote: |
| Atom, what is your itinerary for China? You might be able to go to some places by train. If not, you really do need to go with something light if you are flying all over the place. I've been in Beijing 16 years. It is a city of 16 million and I and some Chinese musician friends have never seen another pedal steel guitar here. Some good suggestions have already been made about the older or newer Stage One, Williams, etc. If you can get a used Excel S-10, they are light and hold up well. I've had several Excels here at various times. Good luck stevet |
Looks like this is the tour schedule:
10/31 Guangzhou, Guangdon
11/1 Shenzhen, Guangdon
11/2 Nanning, Guangxi
11/3 Chengdu, Sichuan
11/4 Nanchang, Jiangxi
11/7 Wuhan, Hubei
11/8 Changsha, Hunan
11/9 Hangzhou, Zhejiang
11/10 Suzhou, Zhejiang
11/11 Shanghai
We're definitely doing some train travel as well as some flying. I haven't even looked these up on the map yet, but I'm sure it'll be a lot of travel time 
Supposedly they were looking into renting a steel and having me just bring a Tele or two, but I'm not so sure now. Either way, it should be a really interesting tour. They want a lot of 70s and 80s country, which I've never played. All the more reason to have a practice steel at home, though! There's gonna be lots to practice when I get that set list... |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 22 May 2012 10:15 am China map
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Here you go lad! Looks like you are playing in the south! I think you will see most of the cities on your tour. Why no Beijing stop ???? I'd like to hear you guys.
Last edited by steve takacs on 22 May 2012 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 10:23 am
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Yep, that looks right. Not sure why we're not doing Beijing - the group bringing us over is based out of there, I believe. We have a couple travel days built in for sightseeing, so who knows, maybe we'll get up there for that... but I kind of doubt it.
As for hearing us... I'd like to as well! Still haven't gotten all the players together to meet each other even, but rehearsals are going to be starting soon. It should be a great group, and suffice to say we're all really looking forward to it. As a mostly full-time musician who also has a slightly more than full-time day job (and about 1 hour a week left over for everything else), getting out on the road for extended periods of time just doesn't happen. We didn't even think this tour was legit when they initially offered it to us, but after getting all the details sorted out, contracts, etc... it's totally for real, and now it's starting to sink in that we're going to be playing a bunch of shows on the complete opposite end of the world. Needless to say, I'm feeling pretty lucky about that. |
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Al Miller
From:
Waxahachie Texas
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Posted 22 May 2012 10:38 am Stage One!!
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I would encourage you to have a look at the NEW ! ZUM/Stage One.... its sure enough one of the best playing and sounding Fly guitars in its price range and the customer service is second to none . im not an endorser or am i being paid!! i have played the proto type and i was very impressed with the instrument.. it also offers a triple raise and triple lower changer and you can change pedal and knee configurations quickly and easily.. its a whole lot of Steel guitar for the Price range.Doug is a great guy too he will take good care of you..
Boo Miller
www.stageonesteelguitars.com
_________________
AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10 |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 22 May 2012 10:44 am Welcome to China
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Welcome to China, Atom.
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 10:49 am Re: Stage One!!
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| Al Miller wrote: |
I would encourage you to have a look at the NEW ! ZUM/Stage One.... its sure enough one of the best playing and sounding Fly guitars in its price range and the customer service is second to none . im not an endorser or am i being paid!! i have played the proto type and i was very impressed with the instrument.. it also offers a triple raise and triple lower changer and you can change pedal and knee configurations quickly and easily.. its a whole lot of Steel guitar for the Price range.Doug is a great guy too he will take good care of you..
Boo Miller
www.stageonesteelguitars.com |
Just took a closer look - no half-stop setup on string 2? That seems like it might be a deal breaker. I do use both the C# and the D there quite a bit.
And Steve! Now I have even more to look forward to! |
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Al Miller
From:
Waxahachie Texas
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Posted 22 May 2012 1:18 pm Stage one
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Atom , I spoke with Doug today and he says the guitar does have a half stop!! it uses the 9th string lower to acheive the half stop feel .. my Mullen has the same set up and i think most guitars today uses that system .. now that is on the NEW!! guitar he didnt say if the original "Stage One" had the half stop. however my suggestion was to have a look at the NEW!! guitar they are offering .i dont think they have a pic on the web site yet of the NEW! one.. he said to give him a ring on the phone or shoot him an email and he would be glad to answer any and all questions that you have .. he said it surely wouldnt be a deal breaker ... if you want his number shoot me a pm or email and i will pass it along . im not keen on posting phone #s in a public forum .. ..
Boo Miller
_________________
AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10 |
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Atom Schmitt
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 May 2012 1:21 pm Re: Stage one
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| Al Miller wrote: |
Atom , I spoke with Doug today and he says the guitar does have a half stop!! it uses the 9th string lower to acheive the half stop feel .. my Mullen has the same set up and i think most guitars today uses that system .. now that is on the NEW!! guitar he didnt say if the original "Stage One" had the half stop. however my suggestion was to have a look at the NEW!! guitar they are offering .i dont think they have a pic on the web site yet of the NEW! one.. he said to give him a ring on the phone or shoot him an email and he would be glad to answer any and all questions that you have .. he said it surely wouldnt be a deal breaker ... if you want his number shoot me a pm or email and i will pass it along . im not keen on posting phone #s in a public forum .. ..
Boo Miller |
Thanks Boo! I sent him an email a little earlier this afternoon asking for some info on the new version of it, but it's good to know that the old version can still accommodate the half stop too.
I've sort of narrowed my search down now to include just the Stage One, the Axius, and the ETS. Getting prices and so on for each, and then I'll have to make a tough decision. Seems like all of them would be good choices, though, so it seems like there isn't necessarily any WRONG answer. |
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Mike Mantey
From:
Eastern Colorado, USA
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Posted 22 May 2012 2:18 pm
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Check with a Mullen Dealer for a New Discovery. They are IN Stock and ready to ship. Very Dependable guitar, when service is so far away. They sound amazing as well.
_________________
Mike Mantey
President and C.E.O.
Mullen Guitar Co., Inc.
(970) 664-2518
sales@mullenguitars.com
www.mullenguitars.com |
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