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Topic: RE: Are instrumentals stumbling blocks? (no capo content.) |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 19 May 2012 3:38 am |
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| After receiving my four neck BIGSBY with six pedals, (4-1956), I anxiously and enthusiastically learned virtually each and every new record release by Bud Issacs and Speedy West. Most of these were note for note and I must say it was no easy chore. |
- Ray Montee from Bill Hankey's thread
Why do we feel it's necessary to play these things exactly the way whoever recorded it did? I remember as a kid, trying to play Blind Blake guitar tunes note for note, and feeling inadequate because I couldn't do it. Never mind that I came up with my own ways of playing the songs, it wasn't his way, therefore it was "wrong."
Ray, you're not Speedy or Bud. You're Ray. And that's perfectly fine. Even if we can play something note for note perfect, just like the record, the guys who made the records in the first place, did so with their imaginations and creativity and came up with their personal interpretations of the songs. Shouldn't we all do the same?
BTW, I never did learn to play any of those Blind Blake tunes the way he did them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Franklin
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Posted 19 May 2012 4:13 am Re: RE: Are instrumentals stumbling blocks? (no capo content
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After receiving my four neck BIGSBY with six pedals, (4-1956), I anxiously and enthusiastically learned virtually each and every new record release by Bud Issacs and Speedy West. Most of these were note for note and I must say it was no easy chore. |
- Ray Montee from Bill Hankey's thread
Why do we feel it's necessary to play these things exactly the way whoever recorded it did? I remember as a kid, trying to play Blind Blake guitar tunes note for note, and feeling inadequate because I couldn't do it. Never mind that I came up with my own ways of playing the songs, it wasn't his way, therefore it was "wrong."
Ray, you're not Speedy or Bud. You're Ray. And that's perfectly fine. Even if we can play something note for note perfect, just like the record, the guys who made the records in the first place, did so with their imaginations and creativity and came up with their personal interpretations of the songs. Shouldn't we all do the same?
BTW, I never did learn to play any of those Blind Blake tunes the way he did them. |
Mike,
What anyone has to learn depends on their musical goals. Anyone pursuing a road career in Nashville will on many occasions be asked to play it just like the recording steeler......For instance out of any auditions that may take place for a Ray Price gig, The one who is best at emulating Buddy and Jimmy will always
be chosen over the guy who says I just play things my way........The truth is if anyone wants to go very far up the success ladder they will be asked to both create and copy verbatim steel guitar parts..........
Its best to learn everything and not be married to anything when a professional career is the goal.
Paul |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 19 May 2012 5:33 am
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why do club singers sing the song the same as the original artists..why don't they change the words and make it into a new song ?
easy answer..they would have one gig and the career would be over...
I've never understood why some make such a big deal covering songs just like a particular record or learning parts just like the record... It doesn't mean that's all you do but it may be what you do to get on a bandstand and land a few gigs now and then.
I have chimed in on these threads countless times and here is the example once again that I will put out there yet again..
If you are a guitar player in a band and the song is Peaceful Easy Feeling...there isn't anyone on the planet that will not recognize that, A: you are playing one of the most famous guitar parts known to mankind either spot on or pretty close...or B..You are not, and the song is not the same....The solo is part of the song..just like the instrumental parts are to countless songs...they are not just parts, they are IMPORTANT parts.
If we play in a cover band, of which many of us do..our job as a sideman is to play the song...if you are fortunate to play in a band that allows you to stretch..you play both, the original way and YOUR WAY... BOTH....
Ok..I'll add another example..
What other imaginable way is there to play Together Again other than around the initial component of the song, which basically is the song...
and yes..I spend gobs of time practicing and learning specific parts to songs , it's amazing what you learn when you do this...And yes, I play in a cover band, but we do jam and often, the option is there....
When I get called to fill in with other groups now and then , I play it like the records, maybe not exactly but close enough where it is recognizable..the original elements are there...I get the set list ahead of time, songs I don't know I learn.
My Bass playing band buddy always says..If you are going to be on stage, you should always be prepared and play the very best you can each and every time...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 19 May 2012 6:14 am
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I agree that it you're playing in a cover band, or a road band, you have to emulate the record. What would "Pretty Woman" be without the signature guitar riff?
But that's not what Ray and Bil were talking about before the thread went off in a different direction. They were talking about instrumentals. And so I must ask, does anybody care when somebody plays Steel Guitar Rag different than the way Leon recorded it?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 19 May 2012 6:40 am
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Why do we feel it's necessary to play these things exactly the way whoever recorded it did?
Well I'm not saying anything we don't already know, namely, when starting out, those are the sounds we want to emulate. Everyone has their own jumping off point to where they are playing their own sound. Are you doing originals, or covers, or both. You know the drill.  As far as "are instrumentals stumbling blocks?", it was kinda a vague question question, don'tcha think. Personally, I love to turn a good melody, instrumental or not, into a steel guitar instrumental. I sure can't sing like Judy Garland but I can play "Somewhere Over the Rainbow", and it's fun! |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 19 May 2012 8:44 am
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"Why do we feel it's necessary to play these things exactly the way whoever recorded it did?"
Actually, the question is: "Why is it necessary to play these tunes at all?" These payers are all irevelant to today and their heads should be "chopped off" so the milleniums can applause.
_________________
"FROM THEN TIL' NOW" |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 19 May 2012 8:47 am
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| tony..i knew another bass player who said basically the same thing. always play the best you can...you never know who might be listening. his name was timothy b. schmidt. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 19 May 2012 12:33 pm
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In my mind, it's like climbing a mountain: some people have the urge to do it, just for the feeling of accomplishment that it entails. Similarly, while it is not (usually) important to play a whole instrumental exactly like the original recording artist, there can be a sense of pride and accomplishment in being able to play anything one hears, including so-and-so's arrangement of such-and-such. It demonstrates a mastery of one's instrument. That level of accomplishment itself is far more important (and far-ranging) than the fact of playing any particular piece.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 19 May 2012 2:36 pm
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The way I see it, trying to learn a tune note for note is a good way to improve your playing in general, even if you fail to learn the tune "correctly."
As I said, I never did learn those Blind Blake tunes exactly the way he played them, but in the attempt to do so I discovered other things. Even though I didn't learn the tunes exactly the way he played them, I became a better guitarist for having tried. And when I played the tunes in front of people, they simply enjoyed the music. It didn't matter in the slightest I didn't quite play them exactly like Blind Blake.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 19 May 2012 7:28 pm
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| Amen to that Mike! |
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John Alexander
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Posted 20 May 2012 1:34 am
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Chick Corea said in an interview years ago that when he was learning to play the piano, he would play along with Bud Powell recordings until he couldn't hear any difference between what he was playing and what Bud was playing on a recording. He viewed it as a kind of apprenticeship, a stage in his learning process.
He also said that when he later saw a photo of Bud Powell playing the piano, having never seen one before, he noted that Bud sat at the piano in the same kind of posture that he (Chick) had been assuming while practicing with the recordings! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 May 2012 12:55 pm
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Some copy, and some create; that's the way it is in every art form. "Copiers" gain fame and notoriety, but it's usually temporary. Those who are truly creative are the ones who are remembered for posterity, for they are the ones who begat all the copiers.
"Famous is doing anything, anyway you want, and still having people think it's great." |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 20 May 2012 2:11 pm
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After hearing a new Steel recording or solo within a particular tune I would start thinking how I wanted to play it or improve on it. Most recordings back in the early years were the best choice of several "takes" and each "take" was not exactly the same. A lot of what was played depended on how a particular "take" was going and how the mind was reacting to how well the Band as a whole was playing.
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Sacramento Western Swing Society Hall of Fame, 1992 |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 21 May 2012 8:22 am
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I would like to go so far and say that some shortcomings and lack of techniques can actually create a personal style. Look at Neil Young or Link Wray.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 21 May 2012 8:27 am
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Copying is a great way of learning. It's been done since the beginning of recorded music.
I like to absorb the tune, absorb the feel, the language, etc., and if and when I'm ready, play it the way I like.
But copying is still a very important part of it for me. It's what helped me learn the ins and out of various tunings.
Even great jazz musicians copy and learn the solos of others. It distills into their own playing.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 May 2012 9:24 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
As I said, I never did learn those Blind Blake tunes exactly the way he played them, but in the attempt to do so I discovered other things. Even though I didn't learn the tunes exactly the way he played them, I became a better guitarist for having tried. And when I played the tunes in front of people, they simply enjoyed the music. It didn't matter in the slightest I didn't quite play them exactly like Blind Blake. |
one of the best pieces of advice i learned was from the great John Hartford.
he said you can not manufacture a style, it comes from reaching the limits of your abilities.
thats a powerful statement, imo, to every musician. what we attempt to do is emulate our heros, except that you cant get inside a guys head as to what is going on, nor where he came from musically, his experiences, how hungry he was that day, how good the band was/wasnt, if he was high, sober, etc, etc. when a musician becomes "unique" is usually after failing at this, reaching his own limitations, and then continuing past that developing his own sound.
i think of someone like Lenny Breau trying to just emulate Chet (who had emulated Merle who had emulated Mose Rager) - but he kept on going, hearing things and pretty soon he had blown by everyone else - and lord help trying to figure out what was going on in his head as he played. but someone will listen to him, copy him, fail, yet create something new and the cycle will keep evolving.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II
Last edited by Jerome Hawkes on 21 May 2012 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 May 2012 9:32 am
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Hah. That's what I've always said about my own playing too. Some folks tell me they like my playing "style", but to me, my so-called "style" is just the result of taking everything I've ever learned and tried to play and forcing them through the filter of my own playing limitations, and then trying to smooth over the rough edges left over.
I suppose if I could play anything at all that comes into my head, I'd probably not have any "style" per se. That's kind of how I feel about Joe Wright (no disrepect intended). As far as I can tell, he can play anything that pops into his head (and does!) because he has few, if any, technical limitations. As a result, it would be very hard, I think, to identify a "Joe Wright style". There's only the style-of-the-moment.
On the other hand... there are guys like Buddy Emmons who, also having few if any technical limitations, nevertheless has a distinctive style, presumably because he chooses to focus in certain genres moreso than Joe does?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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