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Topic: Shipping Steel Guitars to International Destinations |
Ted Nesbitt
From:
Northern Ireland
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Posted 15 May 2012 10:58 am |
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| The number of times I see the quotation "No International Shipping" really amazes me. What is the problem? Shipping a guitar from Texas to Germany or Ireland is no different than shipping from Dallas to Boston. I would like to hear your comments on this issue. There are hundreds of pedal steels in Ireland, UK and Europe, I wonder how they got here! |
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Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 15 May 2012 11:17 am
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| I can vouch for what Ted says. I sent a guitar to him for a buyer over there, and it was a piece of cake (or should that be cup of tea?). |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 15 May 2012 12:04 pm
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I think the biggest issues in shipping to Europe are the costs, the time it takes, the danger in damaging the guitar due to the weight, and size of the box, and then all the hidden fees like brokerage and sales tax.
I sold a loaded 10 pedal, 10 knee Emmons to a fellow named Ivan in Larne, not far from you Ted, It was too heavy, and risky to send it Fedex or UPS. Luckily I work for an airline, so I flew Montreal to Belfast, and delivered the guitar to him in person. Do you know Ivan? I wonder if he's still at it?
I had a bad experience selling an early ZB Custom D10 on EBAY to a man in Sweden. He wanted the guitar shipped to a friend in the USA. The friend got charged brokerage and tax when he signed for the guitar. They then somehow got UPS to bill me for the fees, which I refused to pay. I had honoured my end of the deal in good faith. I kept getting invoices from UPS for a long time. Luckily I had kept my copy of the waybill which proved that any extra fees were the responsibility of the receiver.
That problem began when the buyer wanted the shipment insured. Now there was a big price tag associated with the guitar, so UPS goes after the sales tax and fees. That whole deal made me not want to go through that again. I was miffed to say the least. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 May 2012 12:13 pm
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The issues Glenn mentioned. The buyer sometimes wants you to cut the selling price to alleviate some of the shipping expense over which you have no control.
Also claims for damage and loss. The seller always gets the weenie if something goes wrong with International freight. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 15 May 2012 1:18 pm
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in 10 years time, i've had approx 60 psgs shipped to Intl destinations
9 out of 10 get shipped Intl - otherwise i have a US address
very little damage : 2 - i don't use UPS !
1 USPS claim for a lost Stringmaster that finally made it to destination
shipping & customs costs are paid by the buyer -
so what's the problem ?
Filling in the way bill & customs form by the seller ?
give me a break will ya !
i run 'em through the ropes & have never had a hitch
how would you like gettin' slammed w: 30 % by Customs ?
reducing that percentage is understandable & does happen believe me
i rarely squabble on the selling price & i usually add more $$$ for shipping than the initial quote
in these hard times many American sellers are all too happy to sell to Europeans
i make it a point in helping them do just that
try it you'll like it ... |
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Mike Mantey
From:
Eastern Colorado, USA
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Posted 15 May 2012 2:14 pm
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I for 1 ship at least 1 guitar a month Internationally.
There is a little more paperwork to do and it costs a lot more in shipping, but it gets there and makes my customer's happy. I'll ship a guitar to space if they offer it. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 May 2012 3:28 pm
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| Well Ok CB and Mike. I'll consider shipping internationally on my next sale owing to your recommendations and experiences. That expands one's market. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 15 May 2012 3:59 pm
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I've shipped to: Canada, Phillipines,Scandanavia, UK, France and Germany w/o any problems. I tack on the actual shipping charges to the paticular destination, and clarify that I won't be responsible for any custom charges or duties.
Most of the international buyers are uber-conscientous, honest and grateful. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 15 May 2012 4:31 pm
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I think most international buyers know they are liable for any customs charges at their end ... on top of shipping ! Apart from a few extra bits of paper it shouldn't be that big an issue for a seller to ship internationally... and yes, us guys out in the far flung reaches are always grateful to get our hands on a new guitar 
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 15 May 2012 7:40 pm I understand some will say that is only steelseats
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I know that some do think that I only ship seats. However international is usually no problem ( I echo NO UPS ) many times US Post Office is the least expensive BUT it depends which country.
I have found that if both the buyer and seller (ie shipper) do their part it is not that big of a deal. In the past month or so I have shipped several and received emails in all cases that they received them with no problem.
It is important for the shipper to get the cost up front and yes my experience has been that the buyer pays for the shipping - but most know the approx. cost and as long as they know up front there are no problems.
My 2 cents worth ---- one more time no Brown Trucks ( thou shilt not us UPS ever US or export) my opinion
I just had a UPS deiver that asked me to ship his seat to Texas and they just found it in Atlanta - from Phoenix to Texas yep - last one going to California wound up in Chicago at a WalMart - his name was not Wally or Mart
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.co,
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 May 2012 9:48 pm
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I don't see why sellers would worry about the cost … that's entirely the BUYER's problem. As long as the buyer overseas is willing to pay the extras – and believe me, we all know that shipping, import duties and sales tax add a lot to the US selling price – the only inconvenience for the seller is filling in a customs declaration form.
Of course we don't like the added costs, but since the European market is very limited we really have no choice. And the costs are the same, no matter who the seller is. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 15 May 2012 9:58 pm
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I'm sorry, but long-distance international transactions are more complex than domestic transactions, which are more complex than fairly nearby or local face-to-face transactions. There are many considerations, some of which have already been mentioned, and some which have not:
- Customs and brokerage fees
- Picking an appropriate shipper and dealing with problems in shipping
- Lack of common laws regarding the transaction
- Long distances, which make shipping not only significantly more expensive with longer shipping times, but harder to resolve problems that sometimes occur
- Different cultural norms about business and other things and, in some cases, language difficulties. One of the most important things in any business transaction is to have a 'meeting of the minds'.
Need I go on? It's one thing if you're a professional retailer and do a lot of distance transactions - there's a learning curve that's worth taking on. But it really is simpler selling things locally or, failing that, within shorter distances and within the same trading/legal system. Someone who is not a professional, not business/legal/shipping/communication-savvy, and sells things very occasionally may well be better off to stick to local or regional transactions. I would be very reluctant to press amateurs to go outside their comfort zone.
I think much of this would be mitigated (for me, at least) if I was selling to someone with a well-known reputation or who I knew well personally - the trust factor is important. In addition, of course, many of the above considerations apply to any distance commercial transaction - Murphy's Law does apply. But again - some problems that can be dealt with relatively easily when you're close by can get pretty snarled when you cross trading/national/cultural boundaries and/or the distances get large.
My opinion. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 May 2012 10:24 pm
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To me, the big hassle about selling is packing the stuff, especially big and heavy items – that can be really tricky if you're not experienced and have appropriate equipment. So a local pick-up is always best.
But as long as I get all costs covered and the money is safe in my bank account before shipping, it really doesn't matter if the buyer is 20, 200 or 2000 miles away. Just a few simple rules to follow: Insist on insured shipping, and never use the boys in the brown trucks.
But of course Dave has a point; I would probably think twice about doing a deal with someone who joined the forum yesterday, and stay away from anything that looks even remotely like a scam setup (Paypal, Western Union – anything but direct bank transfers, really).
And as a buyer, I would be very particular in checking out the seller's reputation, even when dealing with established retailers. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 16 May 2012 5:31 am
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It is not that tough - US Post Office will surprise you on this one for most of what we do - yes even steel guitars. Price and effiency on international. It is a 1/2 page form with name, address of shipper and buyer plus a one line description.
FedEx has a "commercial invoice" form - one page and they tell you what to fill in. It is about 2/3 of a page. Lots of blanks on there for customs and others but you do not have to mess with that.
I need to set up a company to ship steel guitar / guitar related equipment international and make a few bucks. Steelseats Shipping Company.
I shipped 2 last week and have done several this year. I have no idea what the buyer has to deal with but I do know that in only time was there a delay which was about an extra week but it simply set in customs and the buyer told me all was OK - alls well that ends well.
It does take a little up front planning. Size and weight of box and ask everytime what the freight will be - emial the customer with that info and they make up their mind if it is too many $$$.
Who ever the shipper you are going to use is very helpful. I was surprised at first too.
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 16 May 2012 5:31 am
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deleted - duplicate - oops
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
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Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP
Last edited by Joe Naylor on 17 May 2012 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 16 May 2012 5:31 am
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Why 3 I have no idea - a second duplicate oops -oops 
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP
Last edited by Joe Naylor on 17 May 2012 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 16 May 2012 5:40 am
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Per - I agree that shipping of big, heavy but still fragile items like a pedal steel guitar is a big hassle, no matter where you're shipping to - and made even more complex when dealing internationally.
You also say that you're not worried about what happens once you have your money. This is precisely what worries me most about selling stuff long-distance and especially internationally. Someone can destroy your reputation based on something you had no control over: problems in shipping, problems with customs and/or brokerage fees, misunderstandings due to differing cultural norms or language problems, dealing with crooks who operate under lax regulations in some foreign countries, or many other things.
Again, I think it's fine to do international deals if you go into it with your eyes wide open and understand the subtleties. But I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to decide, for whatever reason, that they don't want to do that. There are issues of what you want to focus on, how you want to spend your time, and whether you want to commit to dealing with the learning curve for this.
I have been on the outskirts of the vintage guitar business for a long time, even though I'm not in it now. I know many guitar dealers who do a lot of international trade. It's definitely worth it to them, but clearly not without its perils, especially if you don't understand the many potential issues. Many people just aren't savvy about even the most basic formal business practices, let alone international trade issues. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 16 May 2012 5:53 am
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I do care what happens to what I ship.
I care what every customer thinks when they unpack what I ship.
I either email most all my customers when it should arrive but most times the email me to let me know.
That is why I do not use UPS.
Joe
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 16 May 2012 6:39 am
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Joe, I was responding to this statement by Per:
| Quote: |
| But as long as I get all costs covered and the money is safe in my bank account before shipping, it really doesn't matter if the buyer is 20, 200 or 2000 miles away. |
Of course, I think most everybody on this forum that I've dealt with cares about satisfaction on both ends of a deal. My opinion is that the longer the distance and the more legal & cultural boundaries one crosses in making a deal, the more complex and subtle it becomes to really assure that kind of mutual satisfaction.
I also note a distinct difference in attitude - even on this thread - between seasoned pros who do this a lot (including as a full-time business) versus people who do this casually. |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 16 May 2012 8:50 am
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It's a known fact that when it comes to opening the wallet, people change.
My own worst experience came from dealing with, what I would consider, one of the most qualified buyer's I have ever dealt with. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 16 May 2012 8:58 am
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Per & Dave, you've brought up good & important points
everytime i've bought from a Fo'bro, i have always called him up ( more than once)& ran through every detail as to avoid Grief, Bad Surprises & Probs
i am wary of newer or unknown members - often i'm lucky cause sellers recognize me
that's why callin' & gettin to know each other is essential -: confidence, trust & a plan that goes without a hitch
forewarned is forearmed, i make sure that if either of us lie, or do the mess around, it will be known here on the forum
1 - method of payment : bank to bank transfer - paypal & split the fees if possible - credit card - intl MO's are costly & one needs 3 to 4 to cover the whole deal so i avoid them - i've sent money to Fo'bros who paid, picked up & shipped the item -
2 - the instrument should have nothing wrong w: it : which means, all that is needed is setting it up, tuning it up & it can be played immediately -
Otherwise, if the steel needs renovation, changing the copedent or is a clunker, it is accepted as such, no whinning or crying afterwards
just lay all the cards on the table
3 - shipping b: i use USPS as much as possible - prices & service are quite good -
FedEx is the next option but more costly
always get the tracking # !
as i mentioned i always add more $$$ to the shipping costs since the online price & the counter differ
if there is a problem like damage or loss, yes, the seller who sent & signed the shipment will be responsible for filing the claim
this goes for domestic shipments anyway right ?
4 - packing is important & is usually well taken care of
5 - Customs : the buyer has to deal w: the phenomena - the seller shipper can only declare a " value for customs " , include a bill of sale, insure " for same " & fill in the waybill correctly
there is NO way to get around NOT paying Customs fees - they CAN be reduced tho' even if some don't like to help do that - that 's ok w: me, i'm not twistin' anybody's arm - i always have an alternative
all sellers really want is the money w: less hassles
sometimes it works that way & sometimes it don't !
it is essential like in so many things : not to rush & take the time to get things right
so runnin' it all down over the phone is a must & it don't come together w: just 1 call -
i always confirm in writing as well
no complaints when it comes to this forum & the folks here
good deals, honorable sellers, & good relationships
let me know if you know of a better place outside of our beloved steel vendors : bobbe S, Duane D, Jim P, Billy C, Tommy C ? |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 May 2012 9:05 am
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| We ship worldwide to all countries that are unrestricted. We pack well, never had a problem with international mail, no damage, never lost a package. Most economical for us is USPS Priority International. Only lost package we ever had wasn't international, it was a lap steel sent Priority Mail from here (Tennessee) to Oklahoma. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 May 2012 11:49 am
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Bottom line is, the seller has every right to dictate his shipping rules. 'nuff said.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Posted 17 May 2012 11:49 am
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Howdy Ted, hope all is well with you.
Ted I'll ship International, in fact I have one going to Australia next month.
Round up the orders Ted and I'll build em and ship em. What an arrangement.
_________________
Email: azpedalman@gmail.com
Phone: 480-235-8797 |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 May 2012 12:39 pm
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| I don't think anyone is questioning the right of the seller to choose where they will ship, but rather the question was why a seller might choose not to ship internationally. I've never lost a package or had damage but warranty expense can be an issue. The customer pays to ship a warranty repair to me but I pay to return it. Add $100 for international shipping and I've just lost all the profit on the sale. One time I neglected to put in one pickguard screw, the customer demanded it and it cost me $30 and all the customs forms to send one screw to Japan. Some destinations such as South Africa require that I present myself in person with the package at the post office. Walking for three blocks with a 20 pound package and then standing in line for more than an hour isn't adding to the profit. Even when the postal service picks up here, the paperwork can be a hassle. Some postal employees just don't have a clue. They'll take the package out of the mailbox and throw the customs forms on the ground. And then there is the matter of wood. I can legally export some kinds of wood but without a lot of paperwork I can't legally accept a warranty return. If a company has enough domestic business, they simply may not want the extra hassle of selling internationally. It is extra work and extra expense. |
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