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Topic: Benny Rogers 'Sand' help !! |
Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 10:04 am |
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I discovered his version today and could not believe how simple and beautifull it was compared to other slightly more cheesy versions Iv heard in the past. I think this is the first time Iv ever heard the melody as opposed to 9th and 11th embellishments so often heard. However simple it sounds tho its a real mystery as to how to play it accurately, especially the first 8 bars, i can get first bar fine, then the notes seem to split and no longer feel like adjacent pairs, has anyone tackled this wonderfull version with any success ( not even convinced its B11, first few bars sound like an A tuning but then it becomes almost impossible in that tuning, any help appreciated, its here for educational purposes
http://soundcloud.com/kevin-brown-music/01-sand-instrumental |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 10:14 am
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Without having my guitar here, it sounds like it breaks off into 4ths for a few notes. I think his tuning was like C6, only a whole step higher, so the adjacent pair of strings 2 and 3 is followed by 2 and 4, which would be an interval of a 4th.
Try it out and let me know. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to listen a little more intently later on with guitar in hand.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 11:35 am
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| Benny's Sand has always been my favorite, and the gold standard to match. |
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 12:31 pm
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Although I'm reluctant to admit my shortcomings on a public forum, I'll do it anyway.
Some years ago while during a practice at home I planned to play Sand at a steel guitar convention as the last song, so I could retune the guitar from A6 to the traditional B11. I had forgotten to do Sand before I began to put the guitar away. I looked to see what notes I needed, and couldn't help but notice that they formed one of JB's three note slant chords. I've been playing Sand in A6 ever since.
Ron |
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 1:33 pm
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| Thanks fellas, Jerry's version and many others provoke ( to me ) a completely different vibe to Bennys. Within moments of hearing Benny version I understood the 'message' unadorned, straight between the eyes, no schmaltz, pure melody, love it. Can I play it !!! I'll be darned if its so simple but at the same time mystifying. I wonder if all later versions differed because no one else could fathom it out either ? I wonder if between us on the forum we can faithfully unlock the key, tell you what I'll donate a copy of Home n Dry to the guy/gal with the answer. Look forward to responses, meanwhile I'll keep trying in A6 but Im far from convinced. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 2:48 pm
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I do like Benny's plain and simple melody version... he has a very sweet tone and vibrato and excellent articulation. But I think there is also a very strong "message" in the B11 sounds we hear from Jerry and others playing Sand. Those rich 7th and 9th chords of B11, and the way they wind themselves around the melody... those sounds add to the mystique and beauty of "Sand", in my opinion. Not to take away from Benny's beautiful playing, but I keep thinking that something is "missing" every time I hear it. I do agree that for learning purposes it's usually better to hear a plain, unadorned melody.
_________________
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 30 Apr 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 3:23 pm
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| Thanks Doug, just checked out Andy Iona's ( writer ) original version and interestingly it shows Benny certainly seemed to take it off on a slightly different direction that no one as far as I know has tried to emulate, most players favouring the Bryd style flavouring, this actually backs up your point about this version being the most favoured, trust me to be the oddball ( again ) Maybe its just because Im a Benny fan at heart, rose tints and glasses spring to mind ! |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 5:26 pm
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| Billy Hew Len did a short analysis of "Sand" in the Rogers style. His criticism was with the playing of the single note octaves in the D9 section, because he doesn't have a chord. He calls the sound "hard" and "not wrong, just not as pretty". |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 6:40 pm
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Kevin, I had a minute to sit down with this. Here's what I think he is doing in the first 4 bars. His tuning is a D13, I believe. You could play it in C6, just play it 2 frets higher.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links
Last edited by Mike Neer on 30 Apr 2012 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 10:48 pm
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Kevin,you are not entirely alone. I will take Benny Rogers over JB. His records just sound funkier to me; not so over-produced.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 6:35 am Jules Ah See= first "BIG" record ??
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| I believe that Jules Ah See had the first "BIG" instrumental recording of Sand done in the 40s ?? I have his old orig. "78 rpm" record. I also have "Sand" by Jerry B , Benny Rogers and a live recording from radio by David Kelii on "Hawaii Calls" in the early 50s. David plays "Sand" in the B11th tuning and I like his version best !! They are all very good !! Eddie "C" AKA the old geezer |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 9:07 am
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| I'm inclined to agree with Doug's take on it. It's a beautiful version and I really love the tone and vibrato but I feel as though part of the song is missing. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 9:47 am
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Hard to argue with Jules and Jerry's versions. Even Andy Iona, the song's composer, played some big, rich chords. I really like the vibe of his version, too.
Here are all 3 together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-CZpK7lNU
Now that I listen to Jules' version again, it is clear to me that he was an influence on Herb Remington's playing.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 11:43 am
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| Thanks Fella's, Mike thanks too for the help there, Im tackling that at the moment, i'm getting the bigger picture now and can see the main point re Bennys single notes in D section, not many players would take that option with the other lush chords such an attractive alternative, I'll see if I can resist !! Just an note David M I don't prefer Benny over Jerry, just his version of Sand |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 7:23 am
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Ran across this old thread...
My favorite versions are the ones done by Jules which are definitely full of 9ths and 11ths. JB's version seems to follow the Jules pattern (with the added intro of course).
But I can see there being some plaintive sweetness in the song done in a simpler style. Having played it exclusively in B11 for so long now, I find it an interesting and useful exercise to play it on my C13 neck...and usually that means, I play with more focus on melody than the fills.
Lyrically its a beautiful song, too, very evocative and somewhat sad.
Does anyone know where to find David Keli'i's version?
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 8:26 am
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In my estimation, it's very hard to beat Jerry Byrd's version of "Sand". 
Erv |
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Mark Kocon
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 10:27 am
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| Simply beautiful, when he cut in , the top of my head blew off. |
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Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 11:24 am
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A coincidence that this thread suddenly reappeared. I recorded Sand on on my metal bodied dobro and was listening to YouTube for a bit of research and inspiration when what should I come across!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzd0mqtIZds
Kevin Brown playing a version of Sand on a Weissenborn (I think).
His version just blew me away.
Having looked at this thread I understand where Kevin was coming from. This is a great example of why I love steel guitar. The beauty and simplicity of this arrangement is gorgeous but the actual choice of notes and articulation is so well crafted and executed.
Excellent.........great playing Kevin! |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 3:46 pm
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Mike, that is a lovely version! Even though instrumental, some of the non B11 versions really seem to restore the lyrical content of it and evoke the original composition nicely.
I remember being a bit shocked hearing this version by Feet Rogers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhWq9pzvPI&t=898s
When I first heard it it sounded almost wrong, so ingrained in my head was the B11 sound and all those fantastic Jules fills (the Hawaiian Shores version is full of straight up wizardry). But it is great hearing another "voice".
On the Benny Rogers, I love the vibraphone addition. There's a version Jules did (from when I don't know) with that here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv3B5dIdTuM
I think the first version I ran across was JB with Gary Aiko singing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXEP5DFDMM4
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Cody Farwell
From:
Sunland, CA
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Posted 27 Aug 2020 5:21 pm
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Spent a little time transcribing those Lanai Session tracks. Here's a quick recording of where I ended up with Sand
https://youtu.be/xdgOWpJ0cmA |
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Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 28 Aug 2020 7:38 am
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Nic, They are all excellent and I am with you totally regarding the feet Rogers version. I would have thought Sand should be played B11 and is the definitive version. What surprised me more than anything else was how much I liked Benny Rogers version.
Thanks for the videos......excellent!
Cody. Great Transcription and tone. I have also been messing about with this. Very seductive tune.
Maybe we should all record a version of Sand and post it on a seperate thread similar to the Sleepwalk thread! |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2020 8:52 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
Even Andy Iona, the song's composer, played some big, rich chords. I really like the vibe of his version, too.
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Thanks for mentioning the composer's version!
Never underestimate Iona. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 29 Aug 2020 11:35 am
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I'm up for a group Sand attempt!
Here's the version I did recently...the vibraphone would be cooler if I knew how to play (or record) it!
https://soundcloud.com/tropicstrings/sand
The fills are some of my favorite bits of the Jules version...most of its pretty easy to figure out but a few of them are really head scratchers. Here are the ones I've sorted out...timestamps from this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-CZpK7lNU
| Code: |
3:14 and 3:48
After "Touching the shore of a heart in love" and
"We spent near a moonlit sea"
E|---------1---1-p0------------------------
C#|--0---1-----1----------------------------
A|--2---1----------------------------------
F#|--2---1----------------------------------
D#|--2---1----------------------------------
B|--2---1----------------------------------
F#|--2---1----------------------------------
B|--2---1----------------------------------
4:00
After "I run my hand thru the sand and smile"
E|-----------------0-----------------------
C#|-------------1---------------------------
A|---------------1-------------------------
F#|-----------1-----------------------------
D#|---------1-------------------------------
B|-------1---------------------------------
F#|-----1-----------------------------------
B|---1-------------------------------------
4:32 (open on CMaj13 neck)
After "Ride off with the changing tide"
(note similar use of this neck at 5:22)
E|-----------------------------------------
B|--------------0-0-0-0--------------------
A|----------------------0------------------
G|-----------0-----------------------------
E|---------0-------------------------------
C|-------0---------------------------------
G|--0--------------------------------------
C|----0------------------------------------
5:08
"of a dream we've known"
E|--0-mute---------------------------------
C#|--1-mute---------------------------------
A|--1--/--10-------------------------------
F#|--1--/--10-------------------------------
D#|--1--/--10-------------------------------
B|--1--/--10-------------------------------
F#|--1--/--10-------------------------------
B|--1--/--10-------------------------------
5:42 (open on CMaj13 neck)
Outro
E|----------------0--------12H-------------
B|-------------0----------12H--------------
A|--------------0--------12H---------------
G|-----------0----------12H----------------
E|---------0-----------12H-----------------
C|-------0------------12H------------------
G|--0----------------12H-------------------
C|----0-------------12H--------------------
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_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 29 Aug 2020 11:47 am
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Also, just for fun...that great Andy Iona intro:
| Code: |
E|------------/14-------------------/12--------
C#|---------12-/14----12--11------10-/12----10--
A|-------12---------12--11-----10---------10---
F#|-----12----------12--11----10----------10----
D#|---12-----------12--11---10-----------10-----
B|-12--------------------10--------------------
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Don't skimp on the vibrato! 
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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