| Author |
Topic: Modifying a 5e3 tweed deluxe for low volume vintage steel? |
Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
|
Posted 19 Apr 2012 1:10 pm |
|
Hey everyone - I built a fender tweed deluxe (5e3) clone years back and decided to bring it to rehearsal last night (as opposed to a NV 112). I was hoping that it would have a good vintage tone with steel (I love how it sounds with my tele), but I just couldn't get it to sit right with the rest of the band. Something in the upper midrange didn't seem to be "gelling", and it just didn't have the sweetness I was hoping for.
Now granted, the 5e3 is, by design, a steel player's nightmare. It breaks up EARLY, and would not work for an unmiked gig. I was hoping that I could get some good low volume recording tones out of it though, but not as it is now. Do any of you with experience in vintage fender tone stacks have any suggestions for me? I was running the steel (GFI S-10P Ultra with GFI II pickup) in the normal channel with the tone kbob backed down pretty low (at about 4-5). Here's the layout/schematic:
Schematic:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/5e3_schem.jpg
Layout:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/5e3_layout.jpg
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
|
|
 |
Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 19 Apr 2012 3:02 pm
|
|
Before I pulled out my soldering iron, I would check out the amp played thru a different speaker or speakers (depending on what is in there now).
I have a homebrew 5E3 and personally, I see no problem with using it for recording at low volume. I would probably opt for a Deluxe Reverb for a similar sized tube amp, given a choice. My tweed 5E3 with a 50 watt Blue Dog sounds nice with a pedal steel at low volumes, but I'm using single coil pickups with it. YMMV.
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
|
|
|
Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 19 Apr 2012 4:46 pm
|
|
| What tube is in V1? A lower gain preamp tube may help. |
|
|
|
Joseph Meditz
From:
Sierra Vista, AZ
|
Posted 19 Apr 2012 5:37 pm
|
|
It's sad that Ted Weber passed away a few years ago. His site and build instructions are excellent. I never bought a kit from him, but when I asked him questions he answered honestly. Now back on topic.
These are just suggestions because I haven't built your amp. Nevertheless, I would try:
1. Replacing the tube diode with silicon using one of Ted's copper plug in kits.
2. Replacing the output transformer with something better.
Joe |
|
|
|
J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
|
Posted 20 Apr 2012 5:26 am
|
|
Hi Kevin
Personally, I would try modifying the tone control to the later style, blackface circuit. That's where the sweetness lives. Best if you have a treble, middle, and bass control. The single tone control, like in a tweed deluxe, has never worked for me...Jerry |
|
|
|
Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
|
Posted 20 Apr 2012 10:22 am
|
|
Hey everyone, thanks so much for the feedback/advice!
Mike - I haven't tried any new speakers yet, I'm running it through a Weber 12A125-A (Vintage Series AlNiCo 12). When I get a chance I'll try it through the blue marvel in my NV 112.
Marc, I currently have a NOS 12AU7 in V1 so I'm already going that route. I have tried it with 12AX7 and 12AY7 and like this the most.
Joseph, yeah he was very helpful back when I was building it! I'm running it with a copper cap already, but I do have a 5Y3 around as well. I'll try the output transformer as a last resort.
J, yeah I agree that a blackface circuit would be better for this use but there's no room on the chasis and I don't want to do that drastic of a modification (as I really like how it sounds for guitar as is).
I picked up an MXR 10 band EQ last night and have been playing with it. I think that turning 1K all the way down and 500 partially down removed most of what I'm not liking. I'm still not getting quite enough bass response, but that could be the speaker (or that I was testing it at apartment volumes). I think I'll be able to get a workable tone out of it now though!
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
|
|
|
Jim Pivarnik
From:
Port Townsend WA, USA
|
Posted 20 Apr 2012 1:12 pm Speaker
|
|
Kevin remember the Blue Marvel is a 4 ohm speaker and your 5E3 wants to see 8 ohms. I have been follow this post because I to have a 5E3 mine is a Marsh build and I really want to like it for low volume steel.
Jim
_________________
Sho-Bud Super Pro
Peavey N112
Fender Stratocaster
Fender Deluxe reverb
Gold Tone 8 string |
|
|
|
Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
|
Posted 20 Apr 2012 5:52 pm Re: Speaker
|
|
| Jim Pivarnik wrote: |
Kevin remember the Blue Marvel is a 4 ohm speaker and your 5E3 wants to see 8 ohms. I have been follow this post because I to have a 5E3 mine is a Marsh build and I really want to like it for low volume steel.
Jim |
Thanks for looking out! Actually my output transformer has taps for 2, 4, and 8 ohms. I added a little switch to go between them. I played with the EQ a little more and man does it make a difference taking a big chunk out of 1K. Even my wife was wowed!
It'd be nice to be able to make that adjustment on the amp itself and not have to lug an eq pedal and wall wart along with it.
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
|
|
|
