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Topic: Sustain Gadgets |
Jon Miller
From:
N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 4:25 pm |
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I'm not sure if this is the correct place on the forum to ask.....but can anyone give some good advice on "Sustain"gadgets for steel guitar? Other than writing in sustain in the fx chain in my Profex, and maybe proper bar manipulation, what else is there on the market that enhances sustain. Appreciate the help.
Jon Miller
N.Ft.Meyrs, Fl
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 5:07 pm
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In general I wouldnt advise relying on gadgets whatsoever for sustain with steel guitar. Sincerely. unless your speaking of a kind of occasional novelty effect such as an ebow or ? never used one of those though.  [This message was edited by Steven Welborn on 02 June 2002 at 06:16 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 5:25 pm
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| Jon, are you playing pedal steel? Do you use a volume pedal? Exactly what kind of "sustain" are you looking for? Give us an example (in some popular recording) of the sound you want to mimic. |
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Jon Miller
From:
N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 5:54 pm
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Steve...thanks for the reply. Could you explain a little more?
Donny...thanks as well. In general, no particular song. I don't get out much to play. But while practicing, I tend to loose the "hold" or sustain (guess that's what it really is) when sliding from one chord to the next such as in an ending. I hear it while the pros play and I feel certain it has something to do w/how you play. Maybe even has to do w/the volume pedal as well. I really can't give you any particular instances other than my own (poor) playing, which may be the whole problem to begin with.Thanks
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 6:22 pm
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| Jon, my advice is on the sparse side because of the greater # of more qualified advisers on this forum, but in this case I feel most would say the same about it. The kind of "sustain" you seem to be refering to is something learned or developed between YOU(bar and picking technique), your steel and the volume pedal. From your post it sounded as though you were attempting to acheive it with gagdets, which is the wrong direction IMHO. Youd cheat yourselve from the right kind of developement. In addition, the more gadgets...the more you comprimise the tone of the guitar. nuf said from me... |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 8:33 pm
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| Jon: Just a thought: Are you sure that as you are sliding the bar you are not inadvertently picking up the bar? That will not only affect sustain, it will stop the sound. In the old days, players were taught to do this as a blocking technique, but is definitely frowned on today. The reason I mention this is I was guilty of it myself once. Steel playing is somewhat like playing golf. Everytime you correct something, you start doing something else wrong. Hope this might help [This message was edited by Jim Bob Sedgwick on 02 June 2002 at 09:34 PM.] |
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Rich Weiss
From:
Woodland Hills, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2002 10:14 pm
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You might not need any gadgets. The best sustain for me comes when I have A LOT of excess volume, then use the volume pedal accordingly. It can simply be a matter of better volume pedal control, and cranking up your amp louder than you're currently used to using it. Takes practice, though.
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 6:23 am
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Most sustain comes from
1. The guitar and
2. Your hands -- particularly the left one
Things such as old strings, dirt under the string at the changer finger or the nut roller can also decrease sustain. Don't underestimate this factor -- it can make a great guitar sound crappy.
Don't look to electronics to improve sustain. I would suggest you plug your guitar directly into your amp and determine whether you may have a problem in your volume pedal or other device between your pickup and amp. Maintaining high frequency response is also important in sustain. If you find that your guitar sounds much better plugged straight into your amp, you may need to use a buffer amp or matchbox like the Goodrich or Hilton. It's built into the Hilton and some of the Goodrich pedals -- so you won't need more than one -- you may already have this.
If you still have the problem plugging straight in, look to your technique. Joe Wright and Jeff Newman have some excellent teaching materials to help with that. Stupid stuff like little dings in the bar can also cause sustain problems, but my crystal ball says that concentrating on bar hand technique may be in the cards.
Hope this helps.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 10:13 am
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My guess is, since as you said most of the playing you do is home practicing, you probably play at a fairly low volume. I have made the experience that on any kind of amplified guitar sustain comes a lot easier at higher volume levels, on stage or even in a band rehearsal where you have to turn up to some point to be heard along with the drums.
Of course the bar hand technique is also critical, and then there´s something else, and I mean the right tuning. You mentioned sliding from one chord to another. I started out tuning everything "straight up" and it kind of didn´t sound right to me. Over the past few months I got into tuning "by ear" and spent a lot of time on it, but especially in that situation- when sliding from a chord to another- something still didn´t sound right, amateurish, sort of. And I think it affected the sustain too. A couple of weeks ago I decided to check out a tuning chart that the previous owner of my guitar gave to me, looked pretty weird to me at first (no, it´s not Jeff Newman´s) and all of a sudden everything changed. Slides sounded beautiful, and I think even the sustain increased, even when practicing with my headphone amp. Of course I still don´t know if this is real or just my imagination. The next rehearsal with the band will show that.
I know I should train my ears enough to be able not to rely on other people´s tuning charts at all, I just wanted to try that one out and it made me realize where maybe I was wrong before. I don´t want to start another discussion about tuning methods here, either.
Regards, Joe H. [This message was edited by Joe Henry on 03 June 2002 at 11:17 AM.] [This message was edited by Joe Henry on 06 June 2002 at 10:54 AM.] |
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Paul McClure
From:
Penfield, NY, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 11:55 am
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Another opinion. I agree that you can't substitute effects for good technique, but I find that the combination of the Boss Compressor/Sustainer and the Boss DD5 really help the sustain on my Sho-Bud Pro II.
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Sho-Bud ProII Custom D10
Web amp, DD5, CS3
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 12:13 pm
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| Be careful with that Compressor/Sustainer, though. I too use a similar combination sometimes, but I really want to use it only as a special effect for certain tunes and avoid to make a habit out of it. It´s very tempting to over-use those things. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 1:14 pm
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| I use an E-Bow when I want lots of sustain. |
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Jon Miller
From:
N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 5:24 pm
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Thats amazing to me that there's such a difference of opinions on this subject. But I bet it's mostly my self-taught bad habits I've picked up over the few years I've been playing. It also may be the volume as was stated, as well. I've only played out with a band a time or two. But I couldn't hear the differnce. I am curious though about these available electronics...Ebow, Bob?
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2002 8:55 pm
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Most of the time I have plenty of sustain - more than I need. I use a glass bar to cut it down. It's easy to get lots of sustain out of a good steel guitar.
The E-Bow is a gadget that vibrates a single string forever. It makes the steel sound sorta like a theramin. I use it for effect now and then.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 4 Jun 2002 5:34 am
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Larry Bell speaks volumes... take heed.
The most effective sustain device is at the end of your left wrist. A solid, steady rolling vibrato (combined with a slow, judicious use of volume pedal if necessary) is the way to natural sounding sustain. You must learn to coordinate the movements of your fingers on your left hand to get a rolling vibrato for this type sustain.
A sliding vibrato produces a different sound and a different sustain. Both techniques are similar in that they use the motion of the bar on the strings to constantly excite the strings to vibrate, producing the sustain.
While compression is one of my favorite effects, it does sound like an "effect." And too much FX quashes the natural beauty of the steel sound, IMHO.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Paul Norris
From:
Andalusia,Ala. U.S.A.36420
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Posted 12 Jun 2002 5:58 pm
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| I have found that raisen my bar hand up off the strings(not the bar)when I slide helps me get more substain on long slides. I steel with out any gadgets,MSA,Nashville 400 and Sho-Bud pedal, that's all folks.good luck |
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Del Rangel
From:
Clayton, NC
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Posted 12 Jun 2002 6:03 pm
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| So none of you uses the PSG sustain devices made by Keith Hilton or the folks at Goodrich? |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jun 2002 6:10 pm
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| I tho't I had "sustain" in the bag....on both my Emmons & Bigsby guitars. THEN...I got my first Rickenbacher Bakelite..... "SURPRISE". If you haven't before, you really should do yourself a REALLY BIG FAVOR and atleast try one........for just one song even already... It's an uplifting experience for any steel player. |
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Paul Norris
From:
Andalusia,Ala. U.S.A.36420
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Posted 12 Jun 2002 6:12 pm
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| I use a Goodrich tone adjustable 120 pedal some time if that counts? |
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B Bailey Brown
From:
San Antonio, TX (USA)
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Posted 13 Jun 2002 1:38 am
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I have to agree with what most of the posters have said. Sustain is really much more of a learned “technique” than anything else. It involves both of your hands, the volume pedal, the way you set your amp, the basic attributes of your guitar, dynamics of the room or hall you are playing in at any point in time, whether you are “up” to the occasion on any given night…or not having a “good” one…etc! Lots of different factors are going on.
Personally, I would never rely on a “gadget” to give me sustain. Del Rangel asked about the Hilton and Goodrich sustain gadgets. Good question. I have used a Hilton Digital Sustain for several years, and I don’t leave home without it! Does it help my “sustain”? Not as far as I can tell…BUT I find it to be a great addition to my effects chain. It allows me to make quick and precise adjustments to my tone based on what my ears are hearing from the room I am playing in on any given night. Probably not what Keith wanted to hear …but I love it! Maybe if I am more comfortable with my tone and playing on any given night, my sustain might be better. Ok Keith, I’ll give you that one.
I guess the only “effect” I have ever found that I actually thought might have helped my sustain was a delay. I used it very sparingly, and not very well, until the infamous Butch Cornwell moved to Texas and showed me a trick or two with that thing! I have noticed that that my tone is much more “full” and notes just last longer. It has been especially helpful in the area of doing chimes! (That has always been one of my weakest points!) Thanks Butch!
B. Bailey Brown
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