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Topic: Nickel or Stainless steel ? |
Jamie Lennon
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 1:36 am |
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Hey guys, what is your preferrence?
And what is a major difference between to the 2 ??
thx !
_________________
Mullen Guitars, Little Walter Amps, Benado Effects, D'Addario Strings
www.georgettejones.net |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 4:49 pm
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My gripe with stainless , After the first day they sound 3 months old. Nickle keep there fresh sound much longer.
_________________
Bill |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 5:48 pm
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I've noticed Bill's problem on occasion, but not always.
Stainless is harder, and will therefore be harder on your bars, and will shorten their life a bit.
I have found that the stainless sound brighter.
They'll also "stick" to a stainless bar, making slides less smooth (it's a metallurgy thing I'm more in the mood to accept than learn enough to understand).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Rice
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 5:56 pm
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Stainless sound more "plinky", and a little brighter to me. I much prefer nickel on both steel and regular guitar. I also really like D'Addario Chromes on my lap steels and fretless bass.
_________________
'84 Marlen Custom D-10, 8X4
Oahu Tonemaster 6 string lap steel
Rice Custom 6 string lap steel
Republic Squareneck Tricone
Homebrew 6 string reso
10 string Melobar- Rice modified
Rice Custom 8 string reso (under construction)
Hohner 6 string lap guitar (acoustic)
Kustom K-500 tuck & roll
Peavey Century
Peavey Vegas 400
Peavey CS-800
Bag End custom 1X12 & 1X15 cabs w.EV drivers
Steelin' thru a '72 Vibrosonic Reverb and a '69 Dual Showman Reverb (Stereo) |
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Carl Kilmer
From:
East Central, Illinois
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 5:58 pm
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Stainless has a brighter sound and wears slots in
the changer fingers a lot qicker. I'll never think of
puting them on my steels, but some guys like them.
Like anything else, I guess it's what you really like.
_________________
aka "Lucky Kay"--Custom built Rittenberry SD10 3X5, Walker S/S, NV-112, and Hilton Pedal |
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Max Stuckey
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 6:02 pm Stainless steel strings
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| It seems like I heard that all manufactures used stainless steel for the unwound strings. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 6:04 pm Re: Nickel or Stainless steel ?
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| Jamie Lennon wrote: |
Hey guys, what is your preferrence?
And what is a major difference between to the 2 ??
thx ! |
Jamie, I get asked that same question several times a day on the phone.
In my humble opinion and not to get into all the technical stuff about string construction, the stainless strings are brighter sounding than the nickel.
It has been my experience that the most of the players that prefer that classic Emmons like bell tone have a tendency to like the stainless strings.
It has also been my experience that the guys that like the classic Franklin warm mid rangy sound like the nickel strings.
Sid |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 2:09 am
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My Franklin came with Lawrence stainless steel (wrapped strings) when new. Mr Franklin recommended those strings at the time. When Bill Lawrence sold his share of L&L Sales to George Lewis (the other half of L&L) and started George L's Nashville Gauge stainless steel strings, I started using them, and still do today, almost 32 years later. I've tried almost every brand of strings on the market, including the Franklin Guitar Co brand, but I'm done with experimenting and only use George L's.
The SS strings have not grooved the fingers in my almost 32 year old Franklin. |
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Dave Alfstad
From:
Indianola, IA USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 3:11 am
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Isn't it true that for the E9 neck we are only talking about a difference in the bottom four strings? All of the unwound strings should be the same either way.
I ask this because I am a long-time stainless string user, but just yesterday I bought some nickel wound strings to try, and I've wondered how those last four strings can make that much difference in overall tone. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 3:22 am
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Sid,
What alloy are the plain stings made from? Are they all the same , or does every manufacturer have his own compound? |
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Tim Heidner
From:
Groves, TX
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 9:52 am
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| the plain strings will rust, so they are definitely not stainless or nickel. The stainless/nickel refers to the outside wrapping on the wound strings. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 10:56 am
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| Tim Heidner wrote: |
| the plain strings will rust, so they are definitely not stainless or nickel. The stainless/nickel refers to the outside wrapping on the wound strings. |
Tim, please do not interpret my following comment as argumentative. It is certainly not mean't that way.
The materials used in steel guitar strings is most definitely stainless steel.
Now with that being said, and not to get into any trade secrets;
Contrary to conventional wisdom, plain strings are manufactured in a variety of different ways.
Most plain strings are stainless steel in the core and plated with tin.
The tin plated plain string is more flexible as the tin will move with the stainless steel core in an acceptable fashion.
Many acoustic guitar strings have a stainless core and are plated with brass. The industry refers to these strings as bronze.
Others are solid stainless steel thru and thru. What’s the difference in sound between a solid stainless steel string and one that has been tin plated?
The solid stainless string is much louder than the tin plated string (acoustically speaking).
Sid Hudson
Live Steel Strings |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 12:42 pm
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Sid, since you make 'em (or have 'em made by someone else to your specs, I don't know which and it doesn't matter for these purposes), I'll ask this, also not trying to be argumentative.
If the plain strings are stainless, coated with tin, how and why do they rust?
Tin's pretty rust resistant, so is stainless. But I've seen plain strings rust.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 1:11 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Sid, since you make 'em (or have 'em made by someone else to your specs, I don't know which and it doesn't matter for these purposes), I'll ask this, also not trying to be argumentative.
If the plain strings are stainless, coated with tin, how and why do they rust?
Tin's pretty rust resistant, so is stainless. But I've seen plain strings rust. |
Lane, not all plain strings are coated with tin. Most are, some are not.
Tin will form rust. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 1:18 pm
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Sid,
Are your plain strings plated? |
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Carl Kilmer
From:
East Central, Illinois
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 4:23 pm
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| Quote: |
Materials
Today, after thousands of years of evolution, musical instrument strings are made from only a few materials. The only major change in materials in the last hundred or so years has been the substitution of nylon for sheep gut and even then gut strings are still being made by specialist string makers. What has changed is the quality, accuracy and consistency, of the materials and of the manufacturing processes, to produce the finished product. In recent years alloys have been fine tuned by the use of small amounts of additives and by changes in manufacturing methods.
String cores are almost without exception made of tin plated Swedish steel for metal strings and multi-strand nylon for wound nylon strings. A relatively small range of metals are used for the wrap wire of wound strings and acoustic strings are almost always wound with copper or one of its alloys. Electric strings (and often Dobro strings) are wound with harder materials like nickel, nickel plated steel or stainless steel. Bowed instrument strings are sometimes wound with aluminium wire and monel metal tape and flattened nylon are used to wind tape wound strings. Silk is also used as an inner wrap on some strings to modify tone.
Metal string construction
Musical instrument string manufacturers do not make the wire from which metal strings are made, but buy it from specialist wire mills. For example most string manufacturers buy at least some of their wire from the Mapes Piano String Company in the U.S. or the German company Roslau. Wire used for strings is known in the industry as ‘music wire’ and the wire used for the plain strings and for the cores of the wound strings is made from high carbon steel, that is spring tempered and often referred to as ‘Swedish steel’. Although music wire is available un-plated, steel music wire for guitar strings is usually tin plated to minimise rust. Other plating materials are sometimes used, such as bronze or even gold. |
This is from the article that Carl posted. Interesting. Out of all the sites I googled to see if tin rusts, they all say it doesn't. My best guess, is if your plain strings are rusting, they are either not plated or the spots that are rusting have had the playing rubbed off by your picks, friction from hand movement as well as bar movement.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 4:52 pm I think this may shed some light on the subject
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Rusty tin can-------------RUSTY TINNED CAN
Rusty Coke Can------------RUSTY TINNED COKE CAN
Rusty Tin Shed----------RUSTY TINNED SHED
Last edited by Sid Hudson on 13 Apr 2012 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 7:11 pm
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Tin does not rust, which is why tin is used as protective coating on other materials.
| Quote: |
| Most tin is used to make tin-plate. This tin-plate is mostly steel (or iron, depending on the use and expense involved) and only 1 to 2 percent tin, which forms a coating over the metal to protect it from the elements. This allows tin to be used for a vast number of commercial objects, such as tin cans. |
The leftover tin-bars for flow-soldering in my own old electronic workshop, that have been stored exposed to the elements for over 25 year now, still look almost as shiny as these...
Whatever rusts on strings ... and I have seen quite a few of those rusty strings ... it isn't tin. |
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Dave Alfstad
From:
Indianola, IA USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 7:29 pm
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Sid,
With all due respect, none of those things pictured are actually made of tin. They are made of steel alloys. "Tin cans" were actually steel with a thin coating of tin inside and out to prevent rust. When the tin erodes the rust begins.
I still would like to know how much difference string composition makes overall, when only the bottom four strings are wound. In the GHS sets the plains are the same between the SS and nickel. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 7:47 pm
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| Dave Alfstad wrote: |
Sid,
With all due respect, none of those things pictured are actually made of tin. They are made of steel alloys. "Tin cans" were actually steel with a thin coating of tin inside and out to prevent rust. When the tin erodes the rust begins.. |
Exactly! In my earlier post, I guess I should have said "Rust will form on tin plated strings". For the very reason you just described.
I realize now that I should have said "A Rusty tinned can" and a rusty tinned shed."
When I posted the photos of the cans I thought that would be understood without going into all the long grueling details. I quess I was wrong.
I'm getting and education on what you can say and how it must be stated if you makes posts on this forum.
Wow, this has been exausting! I’ll go back into obscurity now. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Apr 2012 10:24 pm
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Those rusty pics show the steel is rusting. And, if you had the surfaces analyzed, you would probably find that all of the tin is now gone, thus exposing the steel to the elements and therefore rusting. As I stated above, the tin is not what rusts on the strings, it is the absence of tin in spots that are worn that cause the rust. Also, you stated that the unwound strings are made of stainless,
| Quote: |
| The materials used in steel guitar strings is most definitely stainless steel. |
Maybe that is one of your secrets and why your strings will be better than others (at least I hope so - haven't put the sets I bought on my guitar yet).
But referring again to the article Carl posted:
| Quote: |
Wire used for strings is known in the industry as ‘music wire’ and the wire used for the plain strings and for the cores of the wound strings is made from high carbon steel, that is spring tempered and often referred to as ‘Swedish steel’. |
From wikipedia:
| Quote: |
The term "carbon steel" may also be used in reference to steel which is not stainless steel; in this use carbon steel may include alloy papers. |
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Alfstad
From:
Indianola, IA USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 2:51 am
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| Quote: |
| Tin will form rust. |
Sid,
Due to the quote above that you said in an earlier post, I was understanding you to be saying that tin will rust. Then, when you posted pictures of things colloquially called "tin" objects that were rusty, I thought that you were supporting your statement. I'm sorry if I misconstrued what you were trying to get at. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 5:02 am
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Sid, as you can see, it's sometimes tough to navigate throughout the forum, and there are an awful lot of smart, informed people posting here. But, please do not go away!
BTW for those that don't know, Sid is another one of those Virginia Tele monsters. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ct5RkJOEKA |
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