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Topic: Indian Music: "getting it" and listening list? |
Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2011 9:48 pm |
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I've listened to a few tabla players like Zakir Hussain and heard some of Debashish Battacharya's performances over a D root. While I appreciate the technique and complexity that goes into the rhythmic performances, the little music I've heard so far (classical) hasn't quite connected with me on a visceral level yet. It's only been cerebral - I don't think I'm listening correctly.
For those of you familiar with it, to whom (and what order of performers) should I be listening? And what path of links or reading material would be helpful in understanding it better? |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 12:08 am
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I'm a big fan of Lakshmi Shankar. Her Bhajans in particular.
You might also check out Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Pakistani Qawwali singer.
In general I prefer the northern styles of Indian Music to the pyrotechnics of the southern styles. I studied the Kirana style with Pandit Pran Nath and Lamonte Young a while back.
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Bob |
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 3:48 am
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| Ali Akbar Khan |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 6:19 am
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You might check this out: "The Raga Guide", a book with 4 CDs that discusses, notates and has recorded performance examples of 74 different ragas. I don't claim to know much about the subject but it seems like a wealth of information (it was a gift from my brother who's spent quite a bit of time in India and is a bit of an amateur musicologist).
Sort of a small encyclopedia on the subject that you can also just listen to, which other than reading the introductory sections is pretty much all I've gotten around to so far...
http://www.rootsworld.com/reviews/raga99.html |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 8:02 am
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As with Western music, there are many kinds of Indian music, ranging from classical ragas to pop songs to Bollywood soundtrack. Perhaps if you don't like the Indian music you've heard, you just need to try listening to a different style.
One of the first Indian musicians to popularize the guitar in Indian music was Brij Bhushan Kabra. His 1967 release Call of the Valley (Hariprasad Chaurasia on flute, Brij Bhushan Kabra on lap steel guitar, and Shivkumar Sharma on santoor) was one of the landmark Indian releases in the Western world.
I like the recent compilation Bollywood Steel Guitar quite a bit.
_________________
Bradβs Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 8:55 am
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"Music in India" by Bonnie C. Wade is probably the best single book of classification of areas. However, for a starter book I'd recommend "The Dawn of Indian Music in the West" by Peter Lavezzoli, because he connects the music through to that context, exploring how Coltrane, McLaughlin and others connected, the history of Ravi Shankar and Ali Akbar Khan's inroads, the effect it had on the Byrds, the Grateful Dead, and the "Indo/jazz" movement. Plus an outline of the history of the music's develpoment in India, as told by the players.
If your library has an inter-library loan program, you may be able to read-before-buy for just about anything - Maryland is amazing that way. Two others I considered buy-worthy are both Ravi Shankar's 1968 book "My Music, My Life" (also has a section on how to play the sitar, the musical notes are cool); and his more recent, extensive autobiography "Raga Mala."
I own at least three books by Western musicologists who carry some of the Imperialism hangover into their work, instead of asking the musicians what they're doing they try to explain it in Western musical terms... uh-oh. Alain Danielou, for example, becomes deeply ludicrous in his "explanations" of theory.
Listening: ack, it's a long story. If you play steel, Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and Debashish Bhattacharya are unavoidable. My favorites are:
"Mohan's Veena" by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt, and
"Calcutta Slide Guitar 3" by Debashish Bhattacharya. (There is no #2 or #1, BTW)
Any of the early Ravi Shankar albums on the Angel label are strong, like "Live in San Francisco", "The Sounds of India", "Ragas and Talas"... he went through a fallow period after the 1960's adulation messed up his context. He came back; the CD "Full Circle" with his daughter, recorded in 2000 at Carnegie Hall on his 80th birthday is amazing. Two younger sitarists with a hot hand are Kartik Seshardri - "Raga: Rasa" and Indrajit Banerjee - "A Sitar Recital."
Ali Akbar Khan was right up there with Ravi and tabla player Alla Rakha in busting this stuff out here. My favorites of his are "Sarod (Vol. 4)" and a jugalbhandi (duet) with sitarist Nikhil Banerjee called "Volume 4 of the AMMP Signature Series." Another great duet is "Samwad" with sitarist Purbayan Chatterjee and South Indian violinist Kala Ramnath. She is one of my favorites right now, she also has great solo albums - "Kala", "Touching Air" and "Raga & Rhythm."
Much of this can be heard free at:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/#/
Watch out for this site, you can fall in and never get back out...
Another great recent favorite is mandolinist U. Srinivas. I first heard him on the Remember Shakti album "The Believer" and have since tracked down a good bit more. If you want to hear him at the peak of blowing with McLaughlin, try these sugarmegs.org concerts:
http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/RememberShakti1999-06-26BerkleePerformanceCenterBostonMA.asx
and:
http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/JohnMcLaughlinAndRememberShakti2000-11-10ChicagoTheatreIL.asx
The first has more pyrotechnics (@Berklee...) and the second has more mature, developed soloing. Sugarmegs has a dozen or so of the first Shakti concerts too, L. Shankar is another great violinist.
In India, there is really no wall between the classical and pop worlds anymore, people like Srinivas, L. Shankar and Kala Ramnath can go out on a formal classical tour at the same time they've got dance mixes in the clubs and instrumental songs on the radio. Anoushka Shankar is a leader here, here "Rise" and "Breathing Underwater" releases can be heard at musicindaionline.com, and she's also a great classical sitarist - her father was Ravi, after all. Hindi pop music is pretty neat, it still has some honesty to it that just doesn't seem to exist in the hyper-manufactured pop music here.
In general, I think the fusion stuff works best when it's an Indian adding western elements, rather than some western folksinger with a few sitar noises twanging away in the background; Ravi Shankar did some interesting work with Yehudi Mehunin and Andre Previn, and wrote a lot of film scores for orchestra. With the exception of John McLaughlin, no westerner has actually put in the time to get "it" right (though I'd love to hear what Dave Easley was playing in his Indian restaurant gig  ). I'll quit now; backchannel, maybe? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Jan 2011 5:27 pm
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I used to enjoy listening to a lot of Indian music. Actually, World music was really one of my favorite things to listen to throughout the 90s. I spent so much money on recordings, it's crazy.
Anyway, when getting indoctrinated to Indian music, I find I always really enjoyed the melding of East and West. It didn't always work, but the sound of the instruments and the mastery with which they are played lead you to further explore the music in its purest form. Listening to groups like Shakti, or even The Beatles really triggered a desire for more.
I once got a call from a good friend of mine who built the double-neck electric violin that L. Shankar plays, and he told me to drive up to his place because L. would be there picking it up (it needed some work). I spent a day hanging with L. and Caroline and I discovered what the secret to his creative genius is (or at least was): he puffed from his funny pipe every 15 minutes! He would excuse himself to the john and get himself right. But what an amazing musician!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Ron Davis
From:
Lake Arrowhead, California... We're a mile high. ;)
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Posted 4 Jan 2011 11:23 am
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Ravi Shankar's performance at the Monterey Pop Festival was just over the TOP...!
(The famous one with Hendrix.)
I've seen Ravi (& his daughter) live, but I've never seen anything cooler than what he did at Monterey...
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Emmons 12 p/p, Revelation, Black Widows, (& way too many assorted goodies...)
Drummer with a pedal steel fantasy. 
www.LA-Zep.com
www.Desperado1.com
www.CMWChicagoTribute.com |
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2011 7:03 pm
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Thank you, everybody, for the contributions. The wealth of information and courses of study out there is staggering.
Mike, it's funny you mention The Beatles. As a toddler, I always used to have my parents put on the Sgt. Pepper album and that tabla groove on "Within You Without You" etched itself on me as The Standard.
David, that Ramnath link is a great sample. I see what you mean about her not needing to be too effusive in the Alap. When she and Vijay Ghate get after it in the Jhaptaal sections, it's anything but contemplative. I like his rapidfire finger rolls between the bayan and dayan - it sounds almost electronic.
Ron, I have that CD and obviously hadn't listened to both disks. They only put an excerpt of the "Duhn: Fast Teental" on it. It would be interesting to know who among the planners for that festival thought of getting him on the bill. I read that only he and Country Joe & The Fish were paid. Everyone else donated their performances.
I've got my work cut out for me. Thank you all again. |
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Ron Davis
From:
Lake Arrowhead, California... We're a mile high. ;)
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Posted 4 Jan 2011 7:41 pm
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Matt, find a DVD, or even a VHS of the concert. He does a long bit on there that's what I consider one of his "peak" performances. The vibe between Ravi & his tabla man (forgot his name) is so special. You can tell that they were so into it, with the reception for their music that they were getting from the aucience, etc...
It's really sooo cool...
rd
_________________
Emmons 12 p/p, Revelation, Black Widows, (& way too many assorted goodies...)
Drummer with a pedal steel fantasy.
www.LA-Zep.com
www.Desperado1.com
www.CMWChicagoTribute.com |
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Richard Nelson
From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 12:08 am
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| Ron Davis wrote: |
Matt, find a DVD, or even a VHS of the concert. He does a long bit on there that's what I consider one of his "peak" performances. The vibe between Ravi & his tabla man (forgot his name) is so special. You can tell that they were so into it, with the reception for their music that they were getting from the aucience, etc...
It's really sooo cool...
rd
8) |
Amen to that! The tabla player is Alla Rakha.
That movie (Monterey Pop) is a great document of the music scene of the Sixties at a particularly fertile moment. (The DVD box includes outtakes that are also good--why weren't they in the movie? And it's frustrating that even then we're only getting excerpts of what happened--I'd love to see or at least hear the rest of the Electric Flag's set, for example.) The performances are mostly good, and Shankar's performance is a fitting climax. The filmmakers did a really good job capturing the interplay between Shankar and Rakha and the way the audience was "getting it".
I have no idea what's available now, but some of my favorite recordings of Indian music are by the Bauls of Bengal. Bauls are a sect of wandering "minstrels" with a spiritual tradition that centers on music, singing and accompanying themselves on folk instruments. The group that got recorded back in the Sixties and Seventies consisted of five related singers (generally one singer on each song) headed by Purna Das, IMO one of the world's greatest singers. My favorite recording of theirs is, I believe, their first, which was on the Elektra label. They were also recorded performing informally for The Band on an album titled Bengali Bauls At Big Pink. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Kay Das
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 20 Feb 2011 10:57 pm Kolkata Steel Guitar
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One of the Indian steel guitarists who I think has an exceptional touch is the late Batuk Nandy, who comes from the Kolkata school of the steel guitar, much influenced by Tau Moe, followed by Garney Nysss a pupil of his ( an unforgettable version of "Moana Chimes"). Garney had a group called The Aloha Boys.
Batuk has sadly passed away but I am in occasional contact with some members of his family who dearly wish to make him better known posthumously. He was a very modest man and did not market his stuff too well. Here is a thread I posted in another section of this forum. I have more information and will post it here in due course. This seems to be the right place.
Batuk was also influenced by the late Van Shipley who was a famous radio star and played Bollywood tunes; actually acted in a movie or two. Batuk was able to capture the vocal nuances of Rabindrasangeet; in my opinion, a difficult achievement. Gautam Dassgupta and Sunil Ganguli are also notable names in the Kolkata school of steel guitar.
Here is a link to the thread I posted in SGF.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=193460&highlight=kay+das |
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Tim Heidner
From:
Groves, TX
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 10:46 am
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| I recommend John McLaughlin's Shakti stuff. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 6:07 am
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Ravi Shankar answers questions asked by young people, including Keith Relf and Jeff Beck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J__-K6EAfE
Btw where are the pictures of the Indian record covers?!
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 3:04 pm
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Google maps put Cloverdale at an hour and fouteen minutes from San Rafael, home of the Ali Akbar Khan College of Music:
http://www.aacm.org/school.html
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Students learn to play the classical music of North India on the instrument of their choice, Indian or non-Indian. All are encouraged to learn vocal music. Cross training in raga (melody) and tala (percussion) are encouraged, though typically the student will specialize in either raga or tala.
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The amount of knowledge you absorb is wide-open. Every Westerner I've ever heard of who's been successful in reaching some depth of knowledge has studied formally and had some personal relationship with one or more Indians. John McLaughlin has a lifelong friend and teacher in Zakir Hussein and he's studied both the vina and the drumming formally. You might want to give Dave Easley a beep, he was initially playing with Aashish Khan and there's a circle of musicians in New Orleans who take a crack at it:
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| Ustad Aashish Khan is currently co-leading "Shringar" with Andrew McLean and other notable New Orleans musicians such as Tim Green and Jason Marsalis. Shringar is the first foray of any classical Indian musician into the music culture of New Orleans, widely considered the Mecca of Jazz |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aashish_Khan
Aashish Khan had a big east/west band with Zakir Hussein and released an album called "Shanti" in 1969. I HAD that record and loved it half to death, I was like 11, 12 years old, jumping around.... It's never been re-released. A very few years later Hussein & McLaughlin formed "Shakti" which was improbably quite successful and according to Dave, Aashish Khan has been gunshy of the recording industry ever since - there is some conflict or bad feelings involved.
There are little hotbeds & enclaves of Indian musicians around the country, Austin, Minneapolis, umm, San Fran/San Rafael... I believe that Bob Brozman studied at the Ali Akbar School? Harry Manx spent several years in India as have many of the Westerners trying to bridge both musical cultures. You get out of it what you put in, even the guys "faking it" like Jeff Beck are known for having both great ears and dedicated work habits. I wish I lived an hour and fourteen minutes away from that school, do you need a houseboy? I can change strings....
ADDED EDIT: there are eight YouTube videos of various classes at the Ali Akbar School:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtJmcsZjmm4
(These guys might even benefit from an old Supro into a howling Fender Champ, but my legs sure don't bend that way anymore.) |
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Patrick Janka
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Posted 11 Apr 2012 11:20 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Is there any instruction on how to play classical Indian styles on western instruments? |
Yes, my favorite guitarist as of late is Prasanna, who is an Indian guitarist who studied jazz at Berklee. He has a DVD called Ragamorphism. Here's a clip: http://youtu.be/EFMBQj0lwZ4 I haven't seen the DVD, so I cannot comment on it.
I just saw Anoushka Shankar perform in Jacksonville, and it was incredible. She's touring with flamenco musicians and Indian musicians, as her new album, Traveler, is a fusion of the two styles. In my opinion it was the best release of 2011. Here's a video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23zGI-rnGxk |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2012 8:43 am
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Wow! Reincarnation is real!  I have Prasanna's DVD, and there's not really a whole lot there. If you have Ravi Shankar's first 1968 book (now re-released) and/or any other source for some basic scales, all Prasanna does is apply some of the fast slides that are used on fretted instruments to approximate Indian bends. It's nothing you wouldn't figure out just listening and playing. If anything, the DVD John McLaughlin made with Selvaganesh on Konokol - the systematic approach to rhythms used in Indian music - will get you further if you already know how to play an instrument. Listen....
http://www.amazon.com/John-McLaughlin-The-Gateway-Rhythm/dp/B000SUKPFM |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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