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Topic: Telonics vs.Trutone vs. George L..... |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2012 2:14 pm |
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DISCLAIMER: I've been playing guitar for decades, and have done some guitar pickup testing for a local manufacturer, but I'm pretty new to pedal steel, so I could certainly have missed something here...but this I what I think I found...
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Some of you may have followed my previous thread re my search for a lighter steel...( http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=223072&highlight= ), which ended up being a search for a different pickup....so far in my brief steel career I've had a Carpsteel/Alumitone, Rains/Trutone, GFI/GFI-II, GFI/GF-III, GFI/Trutone. Got a Williams/George L E-66 (17K). Put a Telonics Model 84 in it....
Didn't expect to be impressed....I was a single-coil guy, the Trutone was everything I wanted. The two GFI pickups (both versions of George L E-66) either lacked character or were shrill (at least to my ears, YMMV, of course!). The actual George L E-66 was nice, full range, mellow...just not enough sparkle for me. The Trutone had the sparkle, but the low strings were somewhat bland, not really a problem...The Alumitone seemed clear, but a bit dark to me....
Then the Telonics. High strings like bells ringing, low strings had full, round tone with lots of body. All of a sudden chords on strings 6/8/10 had presence, not just tone...I begin to understand what "string separation" means....each string has a full personality of its own, and I find myself not sticking to strings 4,5,6 any more, just because they had more presence...3 used to be thin, 8/10 used to be bland. Now they all step out...
The installation/adjustment procedure is somewhat of a chore...not just due to the time required, but because it is really hard to tell in advance where you are trying to end up....there are two poles to adjust for each string, adjust both together to match string volumes between strings (easy) , adjust opposite directions to increase/decrease "growl" or "bell tone" (much harder to really be sure of getting perfect).
The good news is that without any adjustment at all, the pickup sounds great, but more like a traditional pickup....and just staggering the poles somewhat, as described in the instructions, may not be optimal, but it is wonderful. I did play with the settings beyond that a bit to get it where I wanted it, and I expect that I'll take another pass at it after playing it a while and be able to dial it in more. Until then, it is as they say...you just don't want to stop playing! Perhaps they could provide an audio sample of "not enough/just right/too much" for each string to help users know where they are trying to get to....
Bottom line:
After going through all of those pickups, there is no question that the Telonics has the tone and character that I want. If you are a traditionalist, or you just want more mellow, other pickups would be fine...their tones are certainly respectable and valid. I just love the feeling that my steel has "come alive' under my fingers, and seems to be more sensitive to my touch.....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor
Last edited by Steve Lipsey on 15 Apr 2012 8:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 2:55 am
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| Hi Steve, did you install this pup on youre D-10 ultra, which model pup did you install? I would love to hear this as a comparison to the GFI 2's. Are you talking about the new type 34 with the blade on one side and the holes on the other? |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 5:03 am
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which model PU did you get from Telonics Steve ?
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Roger Francis
From:
kokomo,Indiana, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 5:49 am
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Steve has the 84, i went with the 206 in my Rains, great PU the seperation is is better than any SC i've had, i thought the rains had good sustain before but this PU took it to another level, tone is clean and pure and growl if thats what you like, i'm liking 3 string groupings again  they are a little pricey but you get what you pay for. MPO |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 8:33 am
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I have the Model 84 PW - wide mount, polymer base (because I have a wood neck). Two rows of adjustable poles, no blade.
I ended up selling the GFI so I didn't put it on that...I put it on the Williams. I'd had GFI-II, GFI-III and Trutone on the GFI....
My experiments lead me to believe that the pickup is truly a huge impact - the GFI with Trutone sounded pretty much exactly like the Rains with Trutone (except the GFI had more sustain, and the Rains had a little more attack, exactly as they did acoustically). The GFI sounded fine with the Trutone, way better than it did with the GFI pickups.
I only sold the GFI because I fell in love with Williams guitars, probably more an emotional thing than real. I do like how the rods attach to the bell cranks way better than how GFI does it. And how you put on a string....really easy on the Williams. And a few other things. And, of course, the wood!
I suspect that the Telonics would have a similar impact on the GFI sound to what it did for the Williams....GFI's certainly respond well to pickup changes, retaining their sustain, while adopting the nature of the pickup.
It seems that people often use the model 84 on an E9 neck, and a model 34 on C6. Polymer base for wood necks, aluminum base for aluminum necks.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor
Last edited by Steve Lipsey on 10 Apr 2012 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 8:37 am
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Here is some info from Dave Beaty at Telonics:
There are, in my opinion two and possibly a third choice for your Blue Darlin’ Willie 10 string.
The Type 84AW is a further development (some added science) of the many pickups based upon the 1934 microphone patents, which resulted in the 1957 Gretsch Filter-Tron hum-bucking pickup which Danny scaled up for steel guitar. It has tightly controlled characteristics to give it growl on the lower strings and cutting highs on the smaller strings. It is ‘the’ pickup which, when properly adjusted and used with amplifiers capable of exploiting its design characteristics, is capable of cutting through the mix of live bands without playing loud. It offers the greatest string clarity and string separation of and designs of which we are aware.
As you will note from the attached write-up, it requires a good bit of adjustment to tailor it to both your guitar and your ears, using your equipment and cables. It is designed to be used with a short, very low-loss, low capacitance cable between your guitar - and with a pedal which has a very high input impedance and a very low output impedance.
The second type is the big favorite of the Texas-swing players in Texas who have guitars with wood necks, it is the Type 206PW. (I might add that both the 84AW and the 206PW are best moved further away (below) the strings than other pickups, lest the run in a saturated mode wherein the adjustment has less effect). The Type 206 series has no adjustable poles, however swing player tend to prefer to tip them toward the changer to an unusual degree. Most people express what happens when they do this as “feeling that their guitar comes alive”, or “that’s when the magic happens”. The Type 206 is often said to produce “big sound”, and “strong, fat sound with unusually high string separation and clarity”.
.The “possible 3rd pickup design is the Type 34, either with AW, or PW mounts. This design is somewhat midway between the first two designs. It has some individual adjustment for each string, and it can be tipped to taste.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor
Last edited by Steve Lipsey on 10 Apr 2012 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2012 8:52 am
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And here is a sample of the 84 on a Williams, played by David Hartley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY68YfUw6dY&feature=email
The high strings, played low and high on the neck are obvious throughout....near the end you can hear him hit and slide the low strings also, mostly between 2:45 - 3:20.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 9:18 am
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I too am using an "84" on my top neck and a "206" on my 6th neck. I had a "206" on the top neck first and was happy. I tried a guitar with an "84" in the 9th neck at the Dallas show and found some real magic. I left the show with one.
I have always used the old original Bl705 pickups on my Sho~Buds and never thought the day would come that something better would come along. For me it has.
I couldn't be happier!
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 11:33 am thanks
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great post steve, very interresting  i have an S10 GFI Ultra and tried out the GFI 2 and the E66 before i ended up with a truetone so far. the singlecoil, though some hum, sounds better than the humbuckers, no doubt. that doesn`t mean the george l`s aren`t good. they are quality pickups as well. so if you think the telonics are another step up, i might give one a try. which one do you recommend and where can i get one? 
regards from germany, norbert |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 2:08 pm
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I am not Steve, but here is a link with more info and pricing:
http://www.tpa-az.com/index.htm
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 2:24 pm
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| thanks so much, justin, great information there! |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 6:38 pm
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You are very welcome Norbert.
If you decide on a Telonics model with adjustable pole pieces, be sure you take the time to dial it in.
My 84 sounded great right out of the box, but once I took the time to "dial it in" it became very special.
I would not hesitate contacting Dave Beaty with any questions you may have. He is a wealth of info on this stuff and he really enjoys talking about it.
Good Luck!
Justin
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Dean Holman
From:
Branson MO
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Posted 14 Apr 2012 9:35 pm
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| Which one of these pickups would work the best for a Mullen G2? Right now I'm currently using the newer 705's which I really like. So something similar but better. |
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Dave Beaty
From:
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2012 6:35 pm Telonics pickup selection for a G-2 guitar?
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Dean,
Currently there are primarily three (3) types of Telonics pickups suitable for D-10 guitars such as yours, the choice of which is dependant upon your preference in style and tonal qualities for each neck.
The most prevalent choice for the C6th neck is the Type 206PW, which is the clear favorite for swing-style and “Chalker” music. It offers a classic “fat” bottom end with smooth highs, excellent string separation, and even tonal balance. It has no adjustable poles, making it only necessary to optimize it by adjusting it in the “roll”, “pitch” and “yaw” planes.
(A few very accomplished C6th players prefer to use the Type 84 pickup on their C6th neck because of its clarity. It replaces the fat bottom end of the Type 206 with more of the low string growl and a substantially higher end.)
There are two clear preferences for the E9th neck. Players who prefer a more classic Nashville sound with “hair”, clear and penetrating highs, absolute clarity and growl on the lower strings prefer the Type 84. When properly adjusted, the 84 can be adjusted to provide even balance across the strings with singing highs and low string “growl” (the “bells & balls” similar to a push-pull. In fact, the Type 84 has become the pickup-of-choice to install in older classic push-pull guitars when a humbucking pickup with single-coil sound is needed). The Type 84 offers exquisite string separation, sibilance and clarity, with even balance across all the strings.
A smaller percentage of players who like swing music sometimes install Type 206 pickups on ‘both’ the C6th and E9th necks.
There is also an in-between pickup which embodies qualities of both the Type 84 and the Type 206 pickups. Many players choose it, as it offers less cutting highs and a different, smoother bottom end with less growl than the 84, and less fat bottom end than the 206. It is a mix of both the 84 and 206 pickups. It has 10 adjustable poles and a single fixed ‘bar’ pole, making set-up more simple than the Type 84.
All three of these pickups provide an unusually high degree of string separation/clarity; it is just a matter of which type of sound the individual player prefers. This family of pickups includes nine additional pickups designed to solve particular problems unique to certain instruments.
All three pickups fit the G-2 guitar when fitted with a type PW base.
If you would like technical information on all 13 pickups in this series, forward your email address at your convenience and a .pdf document will be sent to you.
All the best!
Dave |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 15 Apr 2012 7:03 pm
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Ive got the 206 now...3rd telonics pickup Ive tried in my G2s...Mr Beaty IS a rocket scientist, and has brought his products to the PSG world...My s12 will be back from Mullen with the new "WHOA THATS COOL" Mica in a few days, and the 206 will be in it...Ive tried several and they ALL are GREAT pickups...
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Roger Francis
From:
kokomo,Indiana, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2012 6:58 am
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| I agree with Mickey even though i dont play a Mullen, i did try the 84, to much ajusting for me but im sure it is a GREAT PU for those who can do the ajusting, Dave sent me a 206 to try and traded out the 84, Wow what a great guy he is, even though it says they are meant for C 6 or western swing i found that on my Rains SD10 E9th it seems to be a flexible PU, i can make ajustments on my amp EQs to get what i want out of it, even the Growl, plus the sweet HIs and mids. Its the sweetest PU ive tryed yet. |
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Dean Holman
From:
Branson MO
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Posted 16 Apr 2012 12:10 pm
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| How would the 206 compare to a 705. I'm wanting to order another G2 and might like to try these pickups. I like the clean sound and clarity I get from the 705 but if can get even more that with a 206, I might give them a try. I like a big round tone but I don't like the bottom strings to be too thick or dark. What should I do? |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2012 5:15 pm
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Dean-
I don't know the 206 firsthand, but Telonics pickups are characterized in general by wonderful string separation....each string has a personality, the low strings never muddle together...maybe one of the 206 players can chime in here...
And no, I don't work for the company....but when I see a product that is truly a leap in progress from what was there before, I get excited. I also posted a while ago on the Chi Wah Wah wah-wah pedal for steel...I try a lot of stuff, most of it goes nowhere, but when I find something really exciting I just want to tell the world.....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Rick Contino
From:
Brattleboro, Vermont
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Posted 17 Apr 2012 4:46 am
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Is there an online price guide for these pickups for us dreamers? Or would anyone be willing to spill the beans?
_________________
Shobud "The Professional" D-10, National "New Yorker," Gwin Custom Tube Amp thru 15" SICA neo speaker. |
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Chas. J. Wagner
From:
Denver, Colorado USA
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2012 6:57 am
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| Dean Holman wrote: |
| How would the 206 compare to a 705. I'm wanting to order another G2 and might like to try these pickups. I like the clean sound and clarity I get from the 705 but if can get even more that with a 206, I might give them a try. I like a big round tone but I don't like the bottom strings to be too thick or dark. What should I do? |
I pulled a 705 out of my 9th neck to try the 206. I really liked it there. The tone was nice and clean and even all the way across. I also was able to raise the bass side of the pickup to get the bottom strings really clear.
I then tilted the pickup just a little bit (to the side) and that is when it got really good!
I did move it to the 6th neck so I could try the 84 in the top. I would not hesitate to move it back.
Like I said before, I never thought a pickup that I'd like better than the 'Original" 705 would ever come along. It has.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2012 7:27 am
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by the way, .if you have any question on how to buy, pm me and I'll pass that info on....I don't know if I would break a forum rule by posting it....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 17 Apr 2012 7:36 am
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Steve please bring that Williams to the Steel Jam on May 20th at the Beaverton Elks so we all can have a listen.
Larry Behm
971-219-8533
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2012 8:58 am
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Larry & other PDX folks-
I probably can't make it to the jam on that day, but anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and give it a try....I live in inner SE PDX....
-S
p.s. Larry, I'd love to meet you in person, I've heard so much about you!
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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