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Topic: Playing the melody |
Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 27 Mar 2012 10:33 pm |
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One of the hardest things that I had to learn as a young steel player was how to play the melody. Then how to play around the melody and the average listener still recognize the song. So many steel players just play lick "A" and lick "B" and have no idea of the melody of the song.
This coarse is for those that know that there is more than what I left you and what I have displayed.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 27 Mar 2012 10:53 pm
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| Johnny, these days, in new country music, the drummer playes the melody. I think that is an excellent course that you are offering. Very important. |
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Lee Bartram
From:
Sparta, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2012 7:49 am
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| where is the coarse listed ? I didn't see it in the for sale section. |
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Chuck Blake
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2012 7:50 am
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Johnny I applaud you for talking about "the melody".
I am new to pedal steel with an 8 month experience level, however I come from a Bluegrass background.
In today's music, bluegrass especially, pickers or players seem to explode scale into a song and people applaud. Then they turn to their neighbor and ask "what's the name of the song".
I know scale is important but shouldn't scale compliment the melody? Scale is not a subistute for melody.
Good point you raise in your post  and being from West Virginia doesn't hurt either. |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2012 10:26 am
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I personally believe that learning to play the melody is good for the beginner to intermediate player because it develops so many essential things. First off, you can't go wrong when it's your turn up to bat. It also gets you familiar with the scales and positions, pedals/levers etc. It also helps you to develop all around accuracy and dexterity and most of all...confidence.
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 10:07 am
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| my position is that sort of simply faking the melody fools people into thinking you are a 'tasteful' player and since i don't have any hot licks, i try the melody fake concept often. |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 11:18 am
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My take on it is the more you know about music theory and song structures, the more versitile you will be by a long shot. Paul Franklin can take a simple 3 chord position song and put so many ideas in it that its amazing. That comes from alot of studying the neck, theory, and playing along to as much different types of chord progressions as you can. To me the melody is like the point a to point b. When you start in with tri tones, chord substitutions, different types of scales etc. its like taking the scenic route from point a to point b, which is usually the much nicer drive, but it is definately good practice to know the melody as well. You can use a bar or two of a melody to go off on youre own and than come back in it toward the end. Lots of choices that is what makes music so fun for me.
Last edited by Quentin Hickey on 31 Mar 2012 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 11:52 am
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| But what if you're playing & you forget the melody?Or you hit a lick & it reminds you of another song & without thinking you go off on it not realizing you've stepped in it!!!Happens to me all the time.I suppose that comes with age & experience or lack thereof! |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 4:09 pm
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| I didn't see the course listed in New Product Announcements either......please let us know if it's posted...thanks..... |
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Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 3 Apr 2012 3:15 pm
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One The best steel pickers in the world said " When all else fails, play the melody "
I couldn't agree more.
We have walked in at Dallas and St'Louis in the middle of a western swing number being played on the C-6th neck. Very seldom can you recognize the melody.
When we hear this, someone usually says " They are playing that song again ".
If you catch it at the start the melody usually comes through but, after that......good luck. |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 12:15 am
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I think Johnny might be talking about Jeff Newman's course "Just Play The Melody".
_________________
1977 Sho~Bud D10 ProIII Custom; Sho~Bud SD10 The Professional ; ETS S10 5x5;
Fender 1000; 1993 Remington U12; 1978 Emmons S10 P/P; GeorgeB Weissenborn;
Fluger Cat-Can; Asher Electro Hawaiian; Gibson BR4; Fender FS52; Guyatone 8str;
Fender Resonator ; Epiphone Coronet 1937; Rickenbacher Ace; Rickenbacher NS;
Dynalap 8string; Harbor Lights 8string; Aiersi Tri-Cone; Fender Stringmaster |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 6:52 am
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This topic is talked about a lot, but no one has been able to actually explain how to execute it beyond theory. Through other research I just realized that playing through the chord progression is playing the harmony of the song. To play the melody you need to play the notes. Well what if you don't read music? How can you take the words of a song and marry them to a particular chord, as some do, and have it sounds as if the steel is "singing" the song? I've seen it done, but without the ability to decifer what the notes are in terms of a chord I don't know how this is accomplished. This has become increasingly more important as my band is playing a lot of the contemporary country and there are no tabs or "go-bys" to use. And many of the Youtube videos show specific licks but no one tackles this topic, which is critical to taking so many players skill level to the next level.
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 7:01 am
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| Rick Myrland wrote: |
| This topic is talked about a lot, but no one has been able to actually explain how to execute it beyond theory. Through other research I just realized that playing through the chord progression is playing the harmony of the song. To play the melody you need to play the notes. Well what if you don't read music? How can you take the words of a song and marry them to a particular chord, as some do, and have it sounds as if the steel is "singing" the song? I've seen it done, but without the ability to decifer what the notes are in terms of a chord I don't know how this is accomplished. This has become increasingly more important as my band is playing a lot of the contemporary country and there are no tabs or "go-bys" to use. And many of the Youtube videos show specific licks but no one tackles this topic, which is critical to taking so many players skill level to the next level. |
Rick, it is important to learn all your scales and how they relate to the harmony of tunes. I don't think there's any getting around it. I don't know if anyone has written a scale thesaurus for steel guitar, but there are countless books available on the topic. Also, it is a very good way to at least learn how read the notes on the staff an d learn all of your key signatures.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Frank Montmarquet
From:
The North Coast, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 8:50 am
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| Quote: |
| How can you take the words of a song and marry them to a particular chord, as some do, and have it sounds as if the steel is "singing" the song? |
Try singing the melody. Then play. You don't need a good voice, but try to sing in tune, sing along with the record if needed. I find this is helpful for transcribing solos too. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 9:08 am
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For one guy's answer to Rick's question, see "Finding the Melody" at:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=224154
A lot of musicians either instinctively feel this or learned it years ago.
I am amazingly lucky to have had a musician father eager to share this stuff.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 6 Apr 2012 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 9:14 am
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PS: Rick, if you have time to devote to it, I'd go talk to your local junior college music department. Theory 101 or a precursor might make you learn some things you don't need/want to know (like what's happening on that intimidating staff paper), but it teaches a lot about how music works.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 10:09 am
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Rick, there are still a couple of songs that will pop up once and awhile where the steel player can play the melody. But unfortunately and for the most part, today's country music just doesn't seem to lend itself to this "play the melody" approach. It is extremely important to learn basic information regarding music in terms of key signatures, scales and harmony. You don't have to become a music professor, or a maestro. If you learn your scales, you will be able to improvise nicely to any piece of music with single notes. Add your harmony and you can quickly figure out 2 and 3 note harmonic licks and to compliment the single note passages. Understanding key signatures will allow you to pick up and move anywhere on the neck and use all of the other stuff you learned.
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 12:21 pm
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Rick wrote - no one has been able to actually explain how to execute it beyond theory.
We'll I'll tell you exactly how to do it beyond theory. This may sound pretensions. Trust me- I'ts not. I'm not saying Ican do it. Like a lot of folks, I can't-all the time. Like a lot of folks, I strive to be able to do it better, so here goes.
Forget steel guitar for a minute. Imagine someone speaking to you. Someone you've never met before. Not in a dark alley but in a safe place. Maybe they have been introduced, so all is safe and comfortable. Now, this new person speaks calmly and clearly. They do not overpower you either with their volume or manner of speech. They speak clearly and concisely. They don't use alot of wasted words to get their point across and they don't use alot of "umm's" or "err's". They don't over use the words "I" or "me". And after they speak they give you a chance to react and they listen to you. They get their point across and it is a pleasure listening and having a two way conversation. They know how to speak in a way that you feel you just made a new friend. Now I suggest, listen to Louis Armstrong on youtube or somewhere. You hear him take a solo, not a bunch of blazing notes. It makes you want to smile, just like his picture. He's not in a hurry. He's not jamming you. And he uses economy of notes. Like a good speaker. So, I beleive a good soloist, on any instrumnent, is akin to a good public speaker. To some, it comes more natural than to others. Some, like myself, have to keep working at it. And if someone wants to play a lot of fast notes out of a pocket or whatever, Thats cool also. Those groups of faster notes will very likely be percieved by the listener as a single statement.
That, in my most humble opinion, is how to explain how to execute it beyond theory.
What do you think? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:28 pm
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| Bud Angelotti wrote: |
| They don't over use the words "I" or "me". |
... because "I" and "me" are singular, whereas "they" is plural? Who are "they"? |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:31 pm
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| The person you just met, who is speaking to you. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:40 pm
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| Bud Angelotti wrote: |
| The person you just met, who is speaking to you. |
...and ... |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:42 pm
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Though a source of grammatical controversy and not universally accepted, "they" as singular is considered by many to be appropriate.
The details are sketchy after all these years, but I recall in my time as a college English major having a spirited discussion in a class about this very thing.
Back to the melody thread...
_________________
Mark |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:53 pm
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"They" are the individual members of "People That Overuse The Words 'I' and 'Me'.
Glad to help.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 2:33 pm
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| Now I know who they is. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 2:53 pm
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| ,,,,,and getting BACK to the issue,,,,,where do we find the "course" Johnny is referring to?????? |
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