| Author |
Topic: More Newbie Questions |
Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 6:50 am |
|
| I am not getting the sound I want from my stageone played through my Nashville 112. Can someone who has this combo post their amp settings? Also would it be better if I had a delay pedal?? I notice most players use one. And one last question. How often do the strings need to be changed? |
|
|
 |
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 7:40 am
|
|
Jason
You won't have any shortage of suggestions from the Forum, trust me, but let me opine just a little.
I've found there's a consensus regarding the settings for the Nashville 112 (and pretty much all the Nashville series amps) around my circle of players. And that is:
Low - around 3 o'clock, or halfway to the right of straight up
Mid - around 9 o'clock, or halfway to the left of straight up
Shift - set at 800, or about 1/4 to the right of straight up
Highs and Presence - set to your preference.
The key is the mid-shift combination, it's a parametric EQ. Shift sets the frequency you want to affect, and Mid sets the degree of cut or boost you want. So most guys want to cut 800 about halfway off. At least, this is the way all my colleagues and I seem to have been doing it since the days of the NV400.
Re: delay pedal. It's a nice sound to add, but very subtle. You don't need to be spending a ton of bucks on equipment yet, unless the money's just burning a hole in your pocketbook. I rarely use delay, simply amp reverb.
String changing: as a newbie, you could easily go a couple months without changing strings, though if you break a 3rd string, it's probably time to just put on a new set. It's a matter of personal taste, gleaned from experience, as is so much of playing the PSG.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Joseph Meditz
From:
Sierra Vista, AZ
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 11:37 am
|
|
The 112 is a good, portable, reasonably priced amp. I use the settings from Buddy Emmons' site. But there are amps with more mojo. I prefer tube amps.
When I first started I too was not getting the sound I wanted. (Does anyone reach sonic nirvana?) In truth what was coming out of the amp hardly resembled any steel guitar! One on one lessons with Jim Pali helped me beyond imagination.
So, if you are a beginner I think the answer is not in buying more equipment or laying on effects. Rather, you simply need more seat time. |
|
|
|
Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
|
Posted 26 Mar 2012 10:26 pm
|
|
A long answer....
I used solid state "steel" amps for a while before I had a tiny gig that I couldn't use my steel king at.. had to use my Princeton... wow!
I just can't do the solid state amps... just sound dead to me.. not sure if that is your issue but, like any instrument, it is a constant journey.
I also agree with Joseph.. most of the tone is in your hands anyways.
Good luck my friend!!! |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 9:02 am
|
|
As a former newbie, let me offer that picking like a newbie (timidly, lightly, as if you're afraid of striking a bad note or offending some steel guitar God) is the surefire best way to get tone that sucks.
That, and Herb's settings recommendations are pretty good (I'd run a bit less cut than that, but it's close)
As a guide to Highs and Presence (if you're unfamiliar, that's ultra highs: I think highs are around 2.5 kHz and presence around 6 kHz), start with both at 12 o'clock and pick a bit. Add a bit of highs, until you find it bright enough. Then raise the presence. I like to think of Highs as adding brightness and Presence as filing an edge or polishing a sheen on the sound. In a strange room, I add highs til it's as bright as I want with presence at noon. Then I knock the highs back 3 dB and bring the presence up a bit to give you the amount of sheen desired (to describe how I set the lows in a strange room-every room sounds different- I run the lows up til they get "boomy" and then back them off a tad)
But if you're picking indecisively, STOP THAT. Pick it like you mean it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
|
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 6:19 pm
|
|
Steve, while I agree the Black Box does good things for the sound, I dunno if the first thing I'd tell a newbie is "you're gonna need to spend $300 more."
Especially if the problem probably lies in the touch of n00b hands.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 6:52 pm
|
|
At the risk of offending anyone who feels that the answer to achieving better tone from the hands of a newbie is more and more equipment, tube amplification, black boxes, etc., my experience is this:
The greatest solos recorded on the steel guitar were performed on rigs that was a guitar, volume pedal, and amplifier only. But in the hands of players who knew how to get those sounds. There is no amount of equipment that can replace the experience of seat time behind the guitar, and getting more and more gear expecting more and better sound most often simply leads to frustration on the part of the beginner player.
I've taught this instrument for decades and I know what I'm talking about. The answer to better tone is training your brain and hands to produce it. This is acquired through diligent practice and seat time behind the guitar.
You have a perfectly good setup with the StageOne and the NV112.
If your hands can't properly coax the notes out with hand position, attack, intonation and vibrato, all the delays, tubes, and black boxes ain't gonna do it for you.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 7:53 pm
|
|
Jason, you don't say where in Tennessee you hail from, but I'd recommend some face to face lessons from a seasoned picker. All the books, CDs and Youtube tutorials can't provide feedback as to what you're doing wrong and how to make it better.
And Herb said that so well.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 10:17 pm
|
|
| Herb has laid a lot of good information on the table here. I might also suggest that a new picker spend plenty of time practicing with no amp at all to developing the strong and accurate picking technique necessary for good tone with any rig. When your fingers are able to attack the strings with authentic verve and elan it won't much matter any more what rig you are playing.... |
|
|
|
Ransom Beers
|
Posted 28 Mar 2012 11:05 pm
|
|
| I'm not a new newbie but still learning & I've found that on the way to becoming a better player is the old adage "Practice,practice,practice",learn what your instrument is capable off.Using the volume pedal properly is also key to getting the sound you're looking for.There are many scenarios to learning this instrument,many people to learn from on this forum,so just stick with it & as aforementioned "Practice,practice.....ok you get the mssg.Happy steelin'!!! |
|
|
|
John Palumbo
From:
Lansdale, PA.
|
Posted 29 Mar 2012 3:18 pm
|
|
| Herb is so right, I'm kinda like Ransom not a newbie but still learning, when I was beginning learning PSG there was no one to seek advice, so I did (this forum was not around at that time) go out and purchase various amps, various guitars, pickups etc. it lead to the point of frustration, spending money with always the same result, lead me away from continuing with pedal steel, but as I mentioned on a previous post I happened to meet Winnie Winston, and he made at that time my MSA and Peavey LTD and a Goodrich pot volume pedal sound like a million bucks. I hate to think about the money spent trying to buy that tone, where as equipment wise I already had it. |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 29 Mar 2012 3:26 pm
|
|
John
I've been playing professionally for 44 years, and I'm STILL learning. The journey is never ending.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
|
Posted 29 Mar 2012 4:40 pm
|
|
Jason, that's the setup I use to test the guitars.
Personally I run the shift at about 600 to 700 with the mid control about 9 o'clock and bass anywhere from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock depending on what I want at the time. I generally prefer it on the lower side. High and presence to taste, usually highs straight up and presence bumped up a tiny bit.
Of course I seem to like a different sound than most.
Don't be afraid of that pre gain knob either, running it up around noon or so is fine. It doesn't mean you have to play loud, just give the amp a chance to do some work.
Pick the strings like you mean it! |
|
|
|
Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
|
Posted 29 Mar 2012 5:33 pm
|
|
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
At the risk of offending anyone who feels that the answer to achieving better tone from the hands of a newbie is more and more equipment, tube amplification, black boxes, etc., my experience is this:
The greatest solos recorded on the steel guitar were performed on rigs that was a guitar, volume pedal, and amplifier only. But in the hands of players who knew how to get those sounds. There is no amount of equipment that can replace the experience of seat time behind the guitar, and getting more and more gear expecting more and better sound most often simply leads to frustration on the part of the beginner player.
I've taught this instrument for decades and I know what I'm talking about. The answer to better tone is training your brain and hands to produce it. This is acquired through diligent practice and seat time behind the guitar.
You have a perfectly good setup with the StageOne and the NV112.
If your hands can't properly coax the notes out with hand position, attack, intonation and vibrato, all the delays, tubes, and black boxes ain't gonna do it for you. |
I agree 100% with Herb. The secret is in your butt. You will spend a heck of a lot of hours on your Butt trying to develop skill, tone and taste. There are NO shortcuts of which I am aware. |
|
|
|
Scott Martin
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 29 Mar 2012 6:24 pm
|
|
| Herb is right, tone is in the fingers. Pick one note and play it over and over until it sounds right. Think about the way BB King plays. |
|
|
|
Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
|
Posted 30 Mar 2012 4:59 am
|
|
I spent the first couple of years as a player trying to avoid wrong notes. I played carefully and really sounded weak and had bad tone. Then this old player named Warren Pearson came up to my music store, sat down at my guitar, and played the poo out of it right in front of me. It looked like he was just clawing at it...I couldn't believe the strings could take it! It changed my steel-playing life forever. Sure, I missed a few notes for a while, but now I play confidently and with good tone, no matter what amp. I agree on finding a pro to watch and learn from.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
|
|
|
Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 30 Mar 2012 11:05 am
|
|
| Thanks for all the answers guys. I had a two fold problem. One was amp adjustment (inexperience) the other was the volume pedal. Dirty pots make for bad sound! I cleaned it so hopefully it will last until I can afford something better!!!! |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 31 Mar 2012 4:54 am
|
|
A pot pedal will do fine. As Donny pointed out, the inherent tone suck that a pot pedal exerts never bothered Emmons, Day, Green et al.
Personally, I use a $50 Lil Izzy between guitar and pedal (most of the time).
I'd be in no hurry to ditch a pot pedal.
For the next time your pot has issues, I'd have a replacement pot standing by; either the Dunlop or the new one Goodrich has. The $5.00 pots from Radio Shack or other electronics supply places will not last a year.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2012 9:34 am
|
|
I just stick my tuner between my steel and pot pedal (practice setup)....that isolates it enough to avoid hurting the tone. You can always dial the highs out at the amp, but you can't dial them back in...
As people have said, tone is whatever you want it to be, doesn't have to be what every else does....some "classic" things end up having a real appeal....Paul Reed Smith for a while had a "Sweet" switch on their guitars....designed to imitate the tone suck of the high capacitance long coiled cords that people used to use...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
|
|
|
