26 Years On Pedal Steel and Cannot Play A Melody

Dean Edwards · From: Naples,FL & Natrona Hts, PA

Roger, I don't have a problem with "three blind mice, three blind mice, see how they run', but when they all run after the farmer's wife I get lost.

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

Pete - Since you've addressed me personally, no I've never heard the guy. However, I'm believe the OP that he plays real good backup. Yes, I agree with you that there is no inherent need to parrot the lead singer, unless that's what you decide to do. However, according to the OP, who has heard him, he just can't. Nobody has stated that he should play the melody as the next guy. It's just his loss that after 26 years, he can't. Yes, I have been to BG/folk jams where everyone plays the same thing as they go around in a circle, and and yes, I agree with you, to me, it gets kinda boring. But not as boring as going to a jam where one or two people can lead a song and the rest only follow along, noodleing. They don't bring much to the table. Maybe I'd like to follow along and let loose. Would I tell this guy to his face? Probably not. After 26 years, he's probably not concerned in what I, or anyone else thinks anyway. He's just gonna rock-on. Fine. But what if, just what if, he was asked to play "Happy Birthday." And he can't ! Believe it or not, I've seen it! Good folks, nice folks. With expensive gear and nice stuff. They can't, or won't play Happy Birthday for some body! Amazing! In conclusion Smile

I think we are disagreeing, but really agreeing. I, like yourself, just love to bend the rules. There really are no rules. If rules were never broken then string stretchers attached to hawiian steel guitars would not exist. Do what you want. Just Nail it! Don't hold back! PS Dean - Three Blind Mice was a politcal rhyme that goes bck to the time of Henry the 8th. It was one of the first mass printed anti government pieces of "propaganda". Now those folks broke some rules!

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

Maybe your right Joe.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

I agree with Bud. If the guy, after 26 years CAN'T play a melody... and I also would translate "can't" as "won't"... he simply doesn't have the motivation, willpower, intellectual curiosity or simple interest in improving to get any further. He probably wasn't ever challenged, never HAD to learn more, and took the lazy way through his limited musical career. He may make some pleasant sounds, no doubt... just don't expect any more.

Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but is this guy an example of how we want the steel guitar to be perceived by other musicians? Not as a lead instrument, a voice unto itself, but as a device for backup fills and that's it? If the guy was trying to improve, giving his all but unable to, that's one thing. But I simply can't see being an apologist for intentional mediocrity. That won't get any of us anywhere.
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Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

I always say that the steel guitar is the other lead guitar in the band, Like the old commercial on TV. Pork the other white meat Smile

Yes we should play melody or a counter melody when needed,it is important to learn and work on solos. When I'm out playing and someone asks me what is that thing your playing I say a GUITAR Cool

Joe

Graham · From: Marmora, Ontario, Canada

Can't remember the last time I saw so many people get their knickers in a knot over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them on a personal level!

Did anybody ever think that maybe, just maybe, this fella is quite happy and content to do what he does and, from all accounts, does it well?? In whose instruction book is it written in stone that you HAVE to learn to play melody or you are lazy, ignorant, or a detriment to the brotherhood or the steel guitar.

You think he brings nothing to the table by playing good back-up to the singer which, I'm sure, the people in attendance are enjoying? That was what the steel started out as - back-up! People don't pay to go to the concerts to hear the steel player, they pay to hear the singer, likewise to a bar or tavern or wherever. They want straight up steel, go to a convention!!

He is showing, in his way, what beautiful music can be made with the instrument and THAT is what we all should be happy about, not castigating him because he doesn't play "melody"!!
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

The thread posts are "comments and opinions" based on what the 26 year player said about his ability to play melodies when asked.. the posts are RESPONSES...

I personally find it pretty hard to understand how a player can be a great backup player and not play any melodies...backup fills and phrases are in response to melodies and many times are an exact answer ( phrase) to a singers melody line. You hear the line and you respond, you can only respond if you know where the line "lays" on the fretboard. If you don't know where "your response" lays on the fretboard, much like a melody, how do you play it, How do you play anything ? Me, I'll go on a limb here, a player of 26 years who can't find a melody line on a single string ( his own words) is NOT a seasoned backup player. A Skilled musician , any instrument,hears a phrase in their head and plays it, they know where it lays..no different than a melody line. The only difference is a melody line is predetermined. You hear it, understand it and know where it lays..or you don't...

And in response to , the band plays the song..well, uhh..right, but the Steel Player is part of the band is he not ?

Here's a few to ponder , Rose Colored Glasses, I'm So Lonesome I could cry , Silver Wings, Together Again... 1000's more in similar fashion.....get my drift ? How does any Steel player participate in any band , as part of the band, and not play songs such as those close to the bone ? How do you invent " your own thing " for Together Again ? How does a Steel Player back up a song like that without playing the SONG ?

So the band leader says, kick off Together Again, you say go ahead, I'll back you up..he says..but it's a Steel guitar song...you play it all..." Nahh..I only play back-up"..

I smell cop-out...you either play your Instrument or you don't..you are either an equal part to a band or you are not...you don't have to be a great player to participate in a band but you should be well rounded...you should go home and practice as well...how about practice some melodies ? How about expand the horizon ?

Hundreds of members of this forum buy tabs and DVD instructional programs, of which most are teaching how to play a song...helloooowww ..the melody....Now melody is over rated ? huhh ?

but..that's just me...

Darts Accepted !
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Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Tony, I still think the original post was referring to the playing of full instrumental songs. In a practical sense, there is not much of a "market" for this. You can play everything on most country recordings, including the solo to Together Again, there is no intro, and still not be called upon to play full solo instrumental songs. The question of whether someone can learn solo instrumentals, or if he even wants to, is up to the individual. If he enjoys what he does, and other people enjoy hearing it, what's the problem? I'm sure he's not claiming to be a professional musician, or maybe even a good one. The same things applies to those that know many instrumentals but don't understand what they should do to back up a singer.

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

Right Tony, So, for the last time - Nobody said he HAS to play the melody. It's just too bad that after 26 years, he CAN'T. He does not have to be a supersonic ninja of steel. He should be having FUN. And if his idea of FUN is playing country/western noises along to other folks, and they like it too, GREAT! At the same time, melody IS pretty important don't you think? We can't all just JAM ALONG, all the time. Some of us find it annoying. One more thought just popped in my head. Lots of melodies have revealed themselves from just playing around, messing around, jamming, whatever you want to call it. So there you go - Jam on! Smile

Tim Tyner · From: Ayden, North Carolina U.S.A

Me too Tony!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

and.."it's all good "...

And correct, nobody says anyone has to play anything, but wouldn't it be nice after 26 years you could play something "additional" ? And that, I feel , is the point to most of the replies...why not ? 26 years is a very long time !

ok..goof here..I wonder how long his 3rd string lasts and what brand he uses ?

t
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Ransom Beers · Posted 28 Mar 2012 5:55 am

I never did like "Three Blind Mice",it's so "Cheesy".

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I said it before, but if you listen to any mainstream country of the past... really long time really - say a QUARTER-CENTURY - the radio hits since 1986 have featured main melody lines played by electric guitarists, occasionally on slide, but not steel guitar, not anymore. I personally think it's due to the rise of professional songwriters banging out quick demos, and their (mostly necessary) use of keyboards and guitars to write the melody lines and chord/lead fills that define the song. Of course rock 'n' roll as the soundtrack to everything mattered too.

I don't get the impression there's any instances analogous to a Ray Price or Buck Owens asking the steel player to come up with something. And steel players really don't seem to be the personality types to take over a room, take over a band, impose their ideas on the template of modern music - that's been somebody else's job since what... Buddy & Curley & Buddy & Rusty and... all those other guys stopped doing it, longer than 25 years ago really. It may not matter what you can do, if no one asks or needs it, which is why so many working steelers seemingly have secret "other lives" where they can play instrumentals and fool with bebop and "lead the band."

And "the market" - commercial country radio AKA Comcast & network TV - is way too "stupid" as a corporate entity to really want or need honest music generated from what musicians love - if "stupid sells" on the radio, as they say, "more stupid" is the next step UP.... so building a local scene may be the only option open, if there's to be any hope of playing what we like. Thankfully, "the market" is falling apart, the need for cover bands reproducing that nonsense is leaving, but the younger musicians are keenly interested in any and all things that exist outside that dying Nashville dinosaur.

However, reconnecting that type of playing scene with the abstraction called "money" may take longer to do than it took to destroy. I'm reading a fascinating paper called "Money Ruins Everything" that used the rise of open-source software, blogging and a jillion other examples to make the point that "money" per se is a very recent innovation, and seems to be very flawed as an end-goal "highest power" for providing for human needs - but we are kinda stuck with it, short-term. Long-enough-term to outlive me, for sure.

If money has ever been the only incentive towards wanting to be a complete musician, we might not be seeing such a great divide between "music" and "entertainment" - you can now be an "entertainer" with no discernible skills other than... whatever it is that Bret Michaels and Kim Kardashian DO - but it must've been a little helpful when "money" was at least one of several possible incentives for learning a craft well. And if the noodlers have really no incentive to do anything other than noodle - I would hold that have probably never had a melody sear it's way right to their core, in a way that they couldn't NOT try - but perhaps just the social parts of playing along, being with the band, the camaraderie are enough for them. I've met plenty of "musicians" who didn't seem to particularly love music - none of them were very good, but who's function is it to regulate the milquetoast? Don't hire them....

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1126088
(PDF download follows - as well as a way to purchase it using the quaint abstraction called "money") Laughing

(And to make a quick Cliff's Notes point - it is often said [in modern terms] that Bach and Mozart "worked for money" - but they didn't really, they worked for food, shelter and clothing. There was nothing in their income [Bach housed and raised a substantial family] that went through anything resembling Wall Street, there was nothing "taxed" by an unseen, uncontrollable entity - "singing for your supper" is not the same working for "money." And there are substantial & very obvious reasons that Wall Street {XXX>>>} and Washington {XXX>>>} prefer "money.")

Graham · From: Marmora, Ontario, Canada

"How do you invent " your own thing " for Together Again ?"

Ask Sonny Garrish how he did it on the Gene Watson/Rhonda Vincent cut he played on. A refreshing change from what you normally hear.

But, granted, 99.9% of the artists who cut this song go with the break as done or very close to as that by Brumley. A somewhat smaller percentage of the cuts I have also do the intro but there are more changes to the intro than to the break, and they range from a single guitar chord into the singing to straight into the singing with nothing beforehand.

As for Silver Wings, guess you do like Merle and let the lead guitar take it or if you have a big backup group, like he did at Billy Bob's in 1999, you let the steel, sax and guitar each take a part and drag the song out to 4+ minutes.

But, I take your point, Tony. It's not that some songs CAN'T be change, they just SHOULDN'T be, which is probably why the % is so high for Together Again.
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George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

I enjoy playing the melody to a song. Like autum leaves, or undecided now, any of the great standards. What i would really like to know is, if you guys who don't play melody are ever invited to play at a steel club jam, or steel show, do you just turn down the invitation or what? Just curious. I know several who have posted here like my friend Bob C. who are fantastic players on whatever song they play on. Bob C. has his stuff all together. Just fantastic steel player. But just curious? Is it, i'd love to play your club's jam, but ummm..i only play backup? Very Happy

James Mayer · Posted 28 Mar 2012 7:30 am

Graham · From: Marmora, Ontario, Canada

James:
Must have missed those!! Just which "Steel guitar topic" were they posted under??
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James Mayer · Posted 28 Mar 2012 7:52 am

James Mayer · Posted 28 Mar 2012 8:02 am

Now that I'm involved in the thread, I'd really like to read Bud's answer to Pete's questions. I want a better explanation of the "giver/taker" theory, please.

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

I have been playing for a little over a year now and I can play the melody I can hear it and pick it out. I am having problems playing backup. I do not know what to play and when.
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Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

What if one can play the melody but never twice the same way?
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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Rock solos tend to have absolutely nothing to do with the melody...what about all those amazing tunes by the players from the Sneaky Pete school of country rock...tunes like "Christine's Tune", etc.?

I'm in two bands, we play all originals, and it is up to me to craft solos that capture the mood and follow the chords....a sometimes (rarely) start off by stating a line or two of the melody, but then off I go....I haven't yet come up with one that will resonate through the ages (well, maybe, we'll see how well the records do...) but that is my goal...

You don't have to play the melody if you can craft your own melodies. And if you don't play someone else's music....

Yes, I'll get around to learning some of those tunes, I've studied them enough to learn how the player gets around on the fretboard as a way to teach myself how people do it....but I played in my last cover band 20 years ago and making my own music with a bunch of friends is way more fun. It ain't as profitable (yet, anyway) as playing covers, but inventing melodies isn't just what the singer does...

So there are alternatives to stating the melody as fills and solos....not better or worse, but just as valid.
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Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

So .. I young cub reporter is working at a big city newspaper and one day the boss comes in and says "kid - we need a scoop - we need a big story! I want you to go to the middle east and bring me back a scoop - here's a ticket to jerusalem - bring me back a scoop"! Well, the young cub reporter, sensing his big break in the news business, heads for the holy city, where he is put up in a nice hotel directly across from the wailing wall. The kid sits in his room, looks out his window, and sees a little old man praying, morning, noon, and night. The kid senses a story and decides to go talk to the little old man. "Excuse me sir, I'm a young cub reporter from a big city newspaper and I couldn't help but notice you out here praying morning noon and night. And I was wondering sir, if it's not to much to ask, with all the problems in the world, hunger, disease, general trouble, what are you praying for? What's your story?" To which the old man replied, "You want a story? I'll give you a story - I feel like I'm talking to a BRICK WALL."

So, for the last time - Nobody said he HAS to play the melody. It's just too bad that after 26 years, he CAN'T, according to the original post - got it?
Are you sure?

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

The "givers-versus-takers theory" got me thinking about other ways of expressing that paradigm."Covers vs.originals" is one,"mainstream vs.alternative" is another,"professional vs.hobbyist" is a third.

My favorite is "work versus play".I'd bet the ranch that the guy who couldn't play melody after 26 years had a nice non-musical day job that subsidized his playing,no matter what he played,or how well(or poorly)he played it.Since to him it was play,not work,he had no need to do a good job.And he apparently didn't.

Another favorite expression of mine is "singing for your supper".The prospect of supper versus no supper always seems to provide the most marvelous of incentives to sing it right. Laughing

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