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Topic: Vintage copedent questions??? |
Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 22 Mar 2012 7:41 pm |
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Can anyone shed some light on early pedal changes from the dawn on adding pedals to steels. What if any were the common changes when people started to add changes to eight strings?
When playing non pedal I find myself retuning 6th's to dominant 7ths, and major 3rds to minor, was that part of the process as people started adding pedals?
Thanks
Matt
_________________
"Just tryin to make some music in the money business" |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 10:18 am
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Hi Matthew
Bud Issac's E9th tuning and pedal changes would be the beginning of the modern E9th copedent.
Two pedals (I think), one pedal raised the lower B up a tone to C#, and the lower G# up a half tone to A. The second pedal did the same changes to the higher B and G#. That's pretty much where it all started.
C6th, I know nothing about...Jerry |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 11:31 am
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The earliest Bigsby I have with all original pedal setup is a 1951 triple eight. It has two pedals and each pedal operates a single plunger in the middle keyhead. One pedal RAISES string 3, and the other LOWERS string four. I have the original invoice for the guitar and it stated that this middle neck is E13, but it does not state which version of the E13 tuning is is supposed to be. When I bought the Bigsby from the original owner, he could not remember his tunings.
The nut appears to be cut in the traditional manner with strings going from skinny to fat -- no high strings on the bottom.
Here are several E13 tunings. I think the original owner had the third tuning on his guitar. He liked Noel Boggs and Speedy West. The third tuning I have listed is Noel Boggs' E13, I believe. But i will let someone else like Billy Tonneson figure out what the E13 on this 1951 Bigsby was.
E C# B G# E D B G#
F# G# E C# B G# F B
E C# G# F# D B G# E
E C# B G# F# D B G#
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 8:51 am
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 8:56 am
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 9:00 am
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 9:06 am
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 2:43 pm For MLA
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MLA
Do you have any idea who wrote the Bigsby tuning pamphlet?
By the way, thank you for the Leon McAuliffe Live from the Longhorn Ballroom record.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Howard
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 3:52 pm Vintage tunings
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Well don't know if this is helpful but I revert back to Winnie Winstons little book it had everyones copedant AND tunings in the back of the book,
Speedy west julian tharpe,Hal rugg,Buddy Emmons Curly Chalker (He hid some of his changes:). But they are in the back of the book. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 4:22 pm
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Sho-Bud put out a little breast pocket sized bok with the mid Sixties tunings of players and an eight string and nine string tuning.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 24 Mar 2012 5:18 pm
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 7:29 am
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 7:45 am
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I believe that Al Petty wrote the tunings and chord information contained in the Fender literature. Al was working for Fender during the mid-late 50's.
Michael, you've got an incredible collection of paper! Thanks for sharing with us. 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 8:26 am
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Thanks guys, I think I'm starting to get the picture. Great info all around.
I need to spend sme time studying Issacs, West and early Emmons.
Any other first generation pedal player I should look at?
_________________
"Just tryin to make some music in the money business" |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 8:39 am
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| Matthew Carlin wrote: |
I need to spend sme time studying Issacs, West and early Emmons.
Any other first generation pedal player I should look at? |
Are you looking for the early pedal changes designed to change a neck's tuning? Or pedal changes designed to facilitate licks? The earliest copedants were likely designed to change tunings just as you would hold down pedals A and B on a single neck E9 guitar to turn your E9 neck into an A6th neck. If you had pedals, you could make a double neck do the work of a four neck guitar.
That is something to keep in mind when looking at early -- this is a simple generalization -- before Bud Isaacs 1953 Slowly pedals. I am sure there were single string lick pedals and pedals to allow the player to avoid slants before Isaacs.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 9:39 am
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 9:49 am
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 1:58 pm
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| I think the great Steel Guitar Guru, AL PETTY wrote the various tunings in the Fender 400 tuning booklet. |
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 3:40 pm
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Matthew, in 2008 Carl 'Pat' Dixon wrote The Evolution of the Pedal Steel Guitar. As the title suggests, the book traces the development of the PSG pedal by pedal from Bud Isaacs up to modern times. There are lots of charts and pictures, some quite unusual or rare. I think that this book would answer your original questions pretty well. This is a nicely done, spiral-bound, self-published book. I believe that I got my copy from Mr Dixon himself who is a member of the Forum. b0b may have some copies in the Steel Store.
HTH. 
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 6:27 pm
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 6:36 pm
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 6:36 pm
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 10:29 pm
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What do the pedals do on a harp?
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 27 Mar 2012 6:31 am
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| Quote: |
| What do the pedals do on a harp? |
Unlike a pedal steel guitar which changes pitch by adjusting the tension of the string, pedal harps change pitch by actually changing the speaking length of the string. It's been a long time since I looked at one, but some sort of lever swings against the string at a predetermined location, just like a fret on a guitar. Shorter string length = higher pitch.
I'm not sure how the tuning of the changes is configured, but I was intrigued by the mechanism when I saw it the first time.
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 27 Mar 2012 8:56 am
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