| Author |
Topic: Way to simplify recording in a pro studio |
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
|
Posted 20 Mar 2012 11:09 pm |
|
When I do outside session work, I would like to record direct simultaneously a dry signal the client can tweak at will, but also a track with my taste in reverb, delay, etc.
I'd like to hear those wet and dry signals, and hear the track I'm overdubbing to, in one simple mixer-like rack unit gizmo, I'm thinking. Listen through headphones, hear the track, hear my wet signal while I'm playing.
The signal path would look something like this:
steel > Stereo Steel amp/preamp combo (I'll put post-gain effects to just the Left FX loop, so Left XLR output will be wet, Right XLR output will be dry) > both XLR outputs to my monitoring mixer; those outputs pass through at full strength to the recording DAW, but I can adjust listening volume of both channels in my headphones; there'd be a line or XLR in from the DAW delivering the audio of the track I'm dubbing to, I can also adjust its volume in headphones.
So; What piece of gear do I need between my Stereo Steel and the recording gear to make this monitoring possible? Hopefully something off the rack.
Don't get too complicated, please, I'm a fancy player, but a tech simpleton!
Thanks in advance.
Oh, one other question:
Recording direct like this, do I need to add in some kind of speaker emulation for a great sound? If so, what gizmo would that be?
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
|
|
 |
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 3:49 am
|
|
John, not sure if this is the reply you are looking for...but here goes..
When I track at home, I use a DAW..I have effects in the track BIN as I monitor what I play. The signal BEFORE the DAW does not go thru any effects, it does pass thru a very soft compressor..on purpose, not even audible. This is the exact same procedure as in one the PRO studio's I work with now and then.
If you are recording with effects you need to patch the signal before the effects and route that to a 2nd DAW track. As you are doing, two record tracks . One dry and one with effects. Simple... you do not actually need to listen to the dry track, ( yet) set the tracks up identical.
Historically, as you already know, recording with effects is a no no as it cannot be changed after the track is recorded.
Ok..when you are done with the track and ready to send it to the client, one of the tracks is ready for the client..the dry one...
One thing is for certain though, before you send any track to any client you should hear it DRY.
My opinion on this matter may be just mine, a track that you are commissioned to provide will be altered by the end user, this is not the same as playing a gig or recording for our own purposes. Two totally different and NOT connected worlds. I personally never get wrapped up in anything more than a good tone with fresh strings for any session , be it E-session or in studio. Tracking for a client is about the playing , not the tone or effects. If they ask I give them some parameters for reverbs, delay or EQ but that's where it ends. It's way more important to provide a clean track with minimal noise that has good levels but I suspect you already know this.
good luck
Tony
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Ken Morgan
From:
Midland, Texas, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 5:11 am
|
|
Tony's dead on right about your recorded signal should be as dry as possible...however, what you hear in your headphones, especially when running direct, can and should be whatever you want it to be - herein is the catch.
The engineer should be able to send your cue mix back to you with almost no latency (signal delay) and effected as you like. If for whatever reason he cannot, a simple and cheap 4 channel mixer on your end can fix this:
-Almost every DI box has an XLR send to go the recorder and one to go back to the player's rig.
-Take the headphone signal he's sending you and plug into channels 1,2 (if stereo, if mono, only 1)
-Take the return signal from the DI box, plug this into your effects.
-Plug the effects output into channel 3,4 of your little mixer
-Plug your headphones into your small mixer, and adjust the volumes to your preference.
This way, you will have your preferred sound to monitor, plus the prepared cue mix from the control room. These small mixers (Mackie, etc) are usually less that $150, and you showing up to such a job shows a REAL step above the rest. Having a great DI is also a sign of a top notch player who takes the job seriously. Many well equipped studios already have mixers set up so people can do just this.
Hope this helps some.
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for
Ken Morgan
Midland, TX |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 6:56 am
|
|
My Roland Octa-Capture has reverb, but ONLY for monitoring, it does not affect the dry signal that is sent to the DAW. It comes in handy as singers like to hear themselves with a little reverb.
For steel, I record dry and monitor dry. I don't want any monitor reverb, delay or whatever to affect what I'm recording - I want to hear exactly what I'm recording. |
|
|
|
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 2:54 pm
|
|
No wonder all those old steel parts by Buddy, Lloyd, Curly, et al, sounded so lousy, they didn't record their parts DRY!
Thanks for helpful advice and replies, everyone.
I'm just tired of having little control of how well I can hear myself and/or the track, so want to do a simple self-monitoring setup to finally solve that problem.
For home recording, I assume all clients these days want a dry track they can enhance, but might welcome a parallel wet track with my tone, so they have some idea how a steel should properly sound, whether or not they use that wet track. Anyone have that experience with clients?
Ken your setup is exactly what I'm planning on, but as this isn't my area of expertise, I thought learned views might help. I'm looking for a 1U rack mixer, and so far, the Alesis multimix 6 cue looks like it might work, not sure, though.
I may post a diagram of what I think my setup should be, I welcome critiques and suggestions.
Luckily I'm a much better steel player than recording engineer!
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 4:12 pm
|
|
| 30 or 40 years ago, there wasn't the recording equipment we have now. Everything was cut live at one time, no separate tracks and no Pro Tools or Sonar with all the plug-ins. |
|
|
|
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 6:14 pm
|
|
I lived those days, too, Jack; miss the simplicity of it; but love the flexibility of this new era and how easy, not to mention cheap, it is to do high quality recordings in the comfort of one's own bedroom!
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
|
|
|
Ken Morgan
From:
Midland, Texas, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2012 6:36 pm
|
|
Sure thing Jack...people were a lot more cohesive players then as well - no need for headphones for the most part...and the music IMO was better for it.
One reverb (usually a plate or room), maybe an echo, 2 band EQ, overdubs tracked live to the master 4 or 8 track...yeah baby! And, there are lots of major projects being done on that format again now -
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for
Ken Morgan
Midland, TX |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 22 Mar 2012 2:29 am
|
|
I was the staff steel player (and electronics tech) for a studio in Kansas City in the mid/late 70's/early 80's. Bascially everything was recorded with whatever effects (mainly reverb) the producer or musician agreed on. He did have a plate type reverb but that was the only thing. Tracks were bounced to get open tracks to add an extra instrument or to open a track for the final singer's track, etc. The studio had a 4 track Tascam tape recorder (and later an 8 track) and he mixed down to a two track floor model Ampex tape recorder. The two track Ampex tape was sent to the record presser.
Now I have a Windows 7 64 bit PC with Sonar X1D Extended 64 bit (Producer version). I also have Pro Tools MP9 that I've been working with but Sonar is my "production" DAW. I recently bought Ozone 5 after trying demo versions of Ozone 5 and T RackS 3.
One of my clients, Jimmy Peppers (BMI), just scored a new publishing contract with Hank Williams Jr, based on the last song demo CD I did for him. Peppers was a successful Nashville songwriter back in the late 60's/early 70's and even did some major label producing including the last album for Mel Street. Peppers wrote Jack Greene's first top 10 song "Love Takes Good Care Of Me", a #1 for Dottie West "Forever Yours" and many others including about 20 that have been recorded over the years by George Jones. He got tired of the Nashville scene and walked away from it for over 20 years. I've done about 4 or 5 CD projects for Peppers in the last 10 years and he gave me a nice complement on the CD I did two years ago as he told me it sounded like something that came out of Bradley's Barn. Peppers called me last night and has more songs and wants to do another CD. |
|
|
|
Ken Morgan
From:
Midland, Texas, USA
|
Posted 22 Mar 2012 4:04 am
|
|
Nice!! Just got out of the commercial studio bizto focus more on playing, actually making a living, etc. Multiple versions of ProTools, Cubase, Samplitude, etc...private studio now both tape and higher end digital.
Either too many or not enough stories...haven't decided yet. I do know that given druthers, I'd rather have 5 good players all at once that 5 great ones one at a time, regardless of the media
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for
Ken Morgan
Midland, TX |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 22 Mar 2012 9:20 pm
|
|
I have no problem printing a players final signal, and very seldom print a dry signal. Most guitar players bring pedal boards with their signature sounds with them, and that's why I hire them, so that's the way it goes down. The one exception is I do watch the amount of verb being printed, though if the amp has a killer spring, I am always up for using some. I always print some delay on my steel tracks, whether for myself or for other clients/studios. Many of my long distance clients ask me to print it the way I hear it, and I never hesitate, and almost never send a purely dry signal.
If you are working in a pro studio, as you mention in the title, they should have no problem in sending you whatever you need to hear...home studios can be a whole 'nother story...
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
|
|
|
|
