5 Lvers new standard?

Bill Howard · From: Indiana, USA

I think the Pedal Steel builders should pay attention to one thing I think has become standard on an SD-10 Steel 5 knee levers!.
I noticed the guitars in the forum with only 4 have trouble selling them or have to come down in price,then shortly after someone buys a 4 lever axe they will be looking for levers or someone to put one or two on their new guitar. And if you noticed some of the more innovative steel builders are now making 4th pedal on them as well...so I don't think it will be to long until 4+5 will be a standard on an SD10:)..

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Several builders do build their stock guitars with 3 and 5. I think you are right that this is becoming the "new standard".
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Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

I questioned this a while back, mainly aimed at dealers. The builders build to order, the stocking dealers order for prospective sales. Those are the guitars that should be at least 3 & 5. And as you say, that may soon need to be 4 & 5.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Vertical levers aren't for everyone. A lot of people find them really awkward.

Also, you don't need a vertical lever to play what most people want to play.
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Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

ALL CARTERS
(that I know of from my mere 6 years experience)
come with 5 levers.
Awarkward at first, yes, but....
once used to it, I couldn't do without it.
Alone, or in combiation with other levers, and/or pedals.
Don't know why other manufacturers limit it to 4, as I consider the workings of the b5, or b3 (+ more) an important harmonic change, in many forms.
To each his own
Rick
PS: I also see the need for the 4th E9th pedal, but...I'm not financially ready to take the plunge.
Ideally, I hope to end up with an E9th with 5x5

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I agree with b0b on this one, some players do have a hard time with verticals. That said, I think that people saying a guitar with only 4 levers is "limiting" is a hasty generalization. When I listen, I want to hear most is a player with talent, expression, and imagination; the number of levers or pedals he has is immaterial. Limitations are mostly in the mind, not in the instrument.

Listen to the following clip carefully. How many levers is the player using?
(I'll give you a hint, folks, it ain't 5 Winking

)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cixiEyfeJSg

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Verticals are very awkward to use by themselves, but if you have a pedal depressed, you have some leverage to use against the vertical and it becomes easier. This means some fine tuning of the verticals height.

For that reason, I believe that the the vertical is the best pace to put the F# to G (natural) raise, since you rarely if ever use that change without also using either both pedals or the B pedal by itself.

A lot of players put the B to Bb change on the vertical. I think this is a mistake. The change is perhaps the most mysterious of all the standard changes, but once you understand its many uses, it is far more useful than the F# to G change, and is often used with in conjunction with the knee levers, rather than the pedals.
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Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Joseph Meditz · From: Sierra Vista, AZ

When I was looking for my very first PSG, without knowing a darn thing about them, I spoke to a guy who had one with 5 levers. He said he never uses the 5th lever. Then I spoke to another guy who said if you get an S10 with 3 pedals and 3 levers you'll be able to play almost anything. And now after six years I've come to appreciate what they said.

Having a PSG with 5 levers I do use the vertical sometimes, but if I didn't have it I don't think I would miss it. In other words, if I were in the market for a PSG and chanced upon a very nice one with only 4 levers it would not be a deal breaker.

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

I have a fifth lever that does something on the C6th neck, but I'm not sure what.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I don't use mine often, but I'd miss it if it wasn't there.
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Ransom Beers · Posted 21 Mar 2012 2:01 am

BSG guitars come standard with 3-5 & if you don't use the vert. it can be removed very easy or ignored if you must.I use mine on several tunes,like "Silver Wangs"in "D" & a coupla more I can't think of at the moment,also if a person wants to get some of the effect of using the vert. with A-B down,just raise your footy(A pedal)(Danny Boy for instance) a slight bit to get that effect,in that instance you don't need the vert. but it do come in handy when sliding(without pedals engaged) to lead you into a chord change.I hope that explains "MY" usage of the vert.,being unedjukated I have a hard time splainin' thangs.

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I agree with Donny & Mike
Donny: It's not how many levers you have, that counts, it what you can musically achieve with what you have ! There are many players who could "blow me away" with 3x3 !
Mike : I have been moving my X lever around looking for the most compatable place for it.I finally settled on putting it back in it's original place, but am still considering new locations.
Rick

Bill Howard · From: Indiana, USA

First I didn't mean that vertical k levers are for everyone they are not. I had a vertical lever on my franklin back in 1987 and a lot of other players thought it was strange. I lowered 3rd and 6th string to create a minor,now I would never lower 3rd again
it can create a tuning problem with the highest pitch guy on the block..I do have a vertical on the new(to me) Marlen i just bought it actually lowered 6th like I wanted when it arrived, i only changed a cpl pulls on it.
But a lot of players now want the "franklin pedal".
I actually use my vertical quite a bit for minors lower the 6th playing 5-6-8 or 10 will give a nice full minor chord.,mine is low enough and easy enough so it doesnt require a lot of brawn to use or move the guitar.. I still think you will see 4+5 on newer guitars and it will be standard before to very long,especially as builders compete with added features..JMO...

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

I supply my guitars with 4 and 5 as standard. Going by the majority of the steels that I see in operation, they are outfitted that way. So my thinking is that I deliver them with this configuration. At least then the player won't have the extra expense should he/she want them down the road.

So I guess I am saying the 4&5 is the standard, the way I see it.
For those who don't like them on there, they are easy to remove.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that the standard base model should be 3+4, but that it should easy for anyone to add a vertical lever and/or another pedal to the guitar. The mechanical design of the instrument should allow for that. It should be machined with expansion in mind.
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chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

the growing number of pedals/levers is partly due to teaching methods showing what someone else has done. and peer pressure (hey man..i got more levers than you) much the same as a double neck showed you were much cooler than just having a single neck back in my early development.

an amazing amount of music can come from a talented player with 3+3 when you learn to play and create as opposed to copying!

course, since i'm old school i use d10s with 9+8, 9+7, and 8+7...and haven't bothered to try franklin pedal developments...and probably won't. i'm still trying to develop what i already have to work with and certainly haven't outgrown that yet.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Ransom Beers · Posted 21 Mar 2012 10:26 am

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

My point is that there shouldn't be any drilling or machining or disassembly needed to add a pedal or vertical lever. It should be really easy for anyone to do.
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Right now I have 4 and it feels good not worrying about having too many choices, so to speak. It frees me up to play a more basic style and I'm a more solid player than I was when I was trying to load up the steel with all kinds of options. I do want a 5th lever at some point, but for now I'm benefiting from the simplicity of 4.
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Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Ever since I wanted to play "Together Again" and hit some of Tom's licks , I had to have the Bb vert. lever. Later I heard he didn't use that lever to get the 4 to 5 change I wanted , but instead of lowering his 5th, he raised his 3rd and 4th and lowerd his bar one fret... Why didn't I think of that?? I vote for the 3 and 5 being the standard.
RP
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