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Topic: Technique question |
Jay Seibert
From:
Woodland, WA, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 7:46 am |
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I am doing some design research on bullet bars and am wondering if some of you might give me some feedback regarding steel guitar bullet bars and your personal playing technique. How much of that rounded nose do you actually use? 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or...?
Your answers will be considered in my development process of a new tone bar design for lap and pedal steel players. As this process moves forward, I will be looking for a few players to test the new design(s). If you are interested in being a part of this "Focus Group", let me know.
Thanks in advance for your participation.
_________________
www.stoneslides.com is my Paloma Tone Bar and Bottleneck Slide web site
www.clayrabbit.com is my Pottery web site |
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Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 8:14 am
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PM sent. I use the bullet end mainly for split slants. Just bought a used double-bullet bar on eBay (should arrive today).
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Some songs I've written |
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Jay Seibert
From:
Woodland, WA, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 8:22 am
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What I am looking for is how much of that rounded nose do you use? When using the rounded nose for slants, one uses less than 1/4 of that rounded nose...
And by the way, I make a double ended tone bar as well!
_________________
www.stoneslides.com is my Paloma Tone Bar and Bottleneck Slide web site
www.clayrabbit.com is my Pottery web site |
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L. Bogue Sandberg
From:
Chassell, Michigan, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 8:30 am
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Jay, your bars and slides look like works of art.
As a bullet bar user playing exclusively dobro, mostly 8 string, I'm not representative of much of your potential market. That said, here's my two cents:
I want the full rounded tip. Although I don't stand the bar vertically, I dig that tip in between strings some doing split slants and pulloffs. I'm pretty sure a flat on the end would trip me up, even though I used a Stevens style bar for many years.
My bar is a 0.75" diameter Broz-O-Phonic, shortened about 1/16 inch (close to your 75 mm) and weighing just over 5 oz. I have a 2.75 inch Dunlop which I find too short for my 25 inch scales and too light on the heavier dobro gauged strings.
To me, sticking with one diameter is important in compensating for the sight angle to the bar over the fret. When I pick up a different bar, say a 0.875" bullet or a Stevens it takes some time to recalibrate the eye/ear linkage.
One of these days I plan on getting one of your bullets. But the ceramic bar of my dreams would probably closely mirror what I'm used to, 0.75" diameter, 2.875" to 2.95" long and weighing 5 to 5.5 oz. Is that even possible?
Bogue |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 8:57 am
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| The rounded end is crucial! Some players use it to varying degrees, but virtually all players need it. I like the perfectly smooth (half moon) round as you have done with your standard issue, but as I like a fat bar sometimes I'd prefer a smaller tip even tho I'm not partial to the V shaped bars. I am curious what you're about to offer as a 'new' design. Thanx for keeping a technical mind towards development of our standard tool. |
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Jay Seibert
From:
Woodland, WA, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 10:36 am
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I have noticed that when I play 2 and 3 string slants, I don't use more than 1/3rd of the bar nose if that... staying away from the tip. And it doesn't seem like I'm using very much downward pressure at all. Although it has been a traditionally used design, I'm wondering how useful that tip section really is. And for single notes I don't think I'm tilting that bar up beyond the 1/3rd point of the nose.
I'd love to get more responses from players... please... Very Happy
_________________
www.stoneslides.com is my Paloma Tone Bar and Bottleneck Slide web site
www.clayrabbit.com is my Pottery web site |
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Jay Seibert
From:
Woodland, WA, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 10:58 am
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Ron,
The journey I have traveled so far with creating and making Paloma products has been way more fun than I could have ever imagined! As a result of consistent player feedback, Paloma bars continue to be improved at every opportunity. My goal is simply to provide the player with the highest quality ceramic tone bar I can possibly make.
My recent trip to Dallas added some fresh fuel to the creative fire as a result of the excellent conversations I had with legendary veteran players. And yes, I have some fresh ideas about designs/specs for a new tone bar and some possible changes to my current bar. Mind you, changes in the ceramic world are a slow moving process of trial and mostly error.
My Dad (a very fine jazz vibe player) used to always remind me that "You'll never know unless you try." I gotta keep trying to make Paloma bars better. Thanks to the players for your support along the way.
_________________
www.stoneslides.com is my Paloma Tone Bar and Bottleneck Slide web site
www.clayrabbit.com is my Pottery web site |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 11:36 am
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| Jay Seibert wrote: |
I have noticed that when I play 2 and 3 string slants, I don't use more than 1/3rd of the bar nose if that... staying away from the tip. And it doesn't seem like I'm using very much downward pressure at all. Although it has been a traditionally used design, I'm wondering how useful that tip section really is. And for single notes I don't think I'm tilting that bar up beyond the 1/3rd point of the nose.
I'd love to get more responses from players... please... Very Happy |
So the point of your query is that you're contemplating a design with a tip that's not fully rounded?
I often tip the bar when playing rapid single-note runs, especially if I'm bouncing off an open string, so to speak. I'm probably using 1/2 to less than 2/3 of the rounded tip in such circumstance.
But, I'm having difficulty imagining what benefit one might realize from a less than fully rounded tip. Curious what, if anything specifically, has inspired you in this direction... |
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Jay Seibert
From:
Woodland, WA, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 11:57 am
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James,
While trying not to be overly secretive about this, I have several ideas that came from suggestions in Dallas; one was to flatten the tip so that I could stamp/engrave my logo in the tip to identify the bar product name, another has to do with certain design parameters that I might be able to protect with a patent. Once I make a couple of these, the intent and solution I have will be very obvious. Almost to the point of the "snake that bit you".
Keep that input on your playing style with the use of that tip, please...
_________________
www.stoneslides.com is my Paloma Tone Bar and Bottleneck Slide web site
www.clayrabbit.com is my Pottery web site |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 11:59 am
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My alluded to curiosity reflects James' comment, as the bullet end comes into great use in single string movement, especially across the neck, allowing best for the Jerry Byrd coined 'ptah'. It'll be hard to improve on the basic shape, but... you never know.
Plus, the bar does not stay perfectly stationary within the hand, even in use, and nobody wants to be thinking about correcting the roll position, it has to have that universal position. That's why it's evolved to this basic shape and will probably always be the best.
I have a dbl. ended bullet, it's pretty much useless.
And you could slightly indent the nose end in some identifiable manner to make it unique without sacrificing optimum use.
Keep those mindwheels a'turning! |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2012 5:36 pm
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| Jay Seibert wrote: |
James,
While trying not to be overly secretive about this, I have several ideas that came from suggestions in Dallas; one was to flatten the tip so that I could stamp/engrave my logo in the tip to identify the bar product name, another has to do with certain design parameters that I might be able to protect with a patent. Once I make a couple of these, the intent and solution I have will be very obvious. Almost to the point of the "snake that bit you".
Keep that input on your playing style with the use of that tip, please... |
Ah. Well, if you need more test players, I'm up for it. Been meaning to order one of your bottleneck slides to try with my tricone; haven't gotten around to it yet. Wouldn't mind trying a ceramic bar with the laps as well. |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2012 9:49 am
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I only use about 1/4 to 1/3 of the tip of the bar.
I love playing with a bullet bar at home. But when I play out my hands perspire too much and I can't control the bar as well as I would like. Jay's bullnose bars work great for me. The unglazed top lets me keep my grip, and the bullnose lets me do split slants and move across the strings without catching.
Just got one with the OJ profile and it's real nice.
Count me in if your looking for a guinea pig!!!
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"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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