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Topic: Replacing Fender Stringmaster tuner |
Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 6:30 pm |
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I have a post in the Wanted to Buy section--FENDER STRINGMASTER TUNER. I'm looking for just ONE tuner. Wanted to bring this to the attention of Fender guru restorers out there. Was putting strings on my Stringmaster today & could tell ONE tuner must have stripped gears inside. Was wondering if anybody has an extra tuner, like mine, and would be willing to part with it?
Also, are the tuners supposed to be lubricated--inside where the gears are? Thanks.
Last edited by Butch Pytko on 2 Mar 2012 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 9:53 am
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Well, so far, I did a general search on the internet & some info bounced back to the forum. One comment was about Terry Mueller who supposedly was repairing/rebuilding Stringmaster tuners--I emailed him, so far, no answer. Then I came across comments by Ricky Davis who recommended getting Kluson exact replica tuners at ALLPARTS.COM. I sent ALLPARTS pictures of my tuners & am waiting for them to make a final comment if the one I found on their product list is the correct replacement. In the meantime, has anyone ever used this tuner replacement for the Stringmaster tuners?
It looks like it would be the one. One of my questions to ALLPARTS is can that small plate on the back be taken-off? Also, I'm wondering if it has the small tabs to mount it, which this picture shows:
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Mark Bridge
From:
Tempe, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 10:36 am Same issue with Stringmaster Tuners...
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Butch - I've tried Stewmac's vintage Kluson style tuners and it turns out the tuner assembly tabs fit into the mounting plate perfectly. The tuner itself however sits about 1/16" inch lower than the rest, see photos. Now if I can only get the gear unscrewed from the shaft! More heat I guess, then drilling a new hole for the string. The shaft is long enough, and this seems to be an acceptable alternative until both you and I can locate a replacement tuner. Seems like a machine shop may be the last resort. Hope this helps, Mark
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 10:48 am
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Mark,
is the distance between the center of the string-shaft and the center of the knob-shaft is the same as the distance of the old tuners?
If not, you might need to widen the tuner pan slots.
And what is the Stewmac part number?
Are these right hand tuners only? Or do they have a left hand set as well? |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 12:55 pm
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Mark, thanks so much for your very valuable info! Was just on the phone with Elderly Instruments, they have the Kluson tuners with Kluson Deluxe stamped on them just like ours, but only the opposite side & they say they can't get the other side. Anyway, are these the one's that you got: Item# 0933 Nickel, 3Left/3Right, set of 6, for $33.88? That beats ALLPARTS price of $55.00. From the included blueprint drawing, I was finally able to find out if it has TABS--which the drawing shows!
From your pictures, I see the casing is just a bit smaller than the originals--which is OK, as it won't be seen. Also, I understand about the mounting being a little bit lower--I'm trying to figure-out how to correct that. You could file out the slots & post hole some, but then you'd need to insert something underneath to keep it in position. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 1:28 pm
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| Can you remove the cover on the tuner that slips? Maybe it's just a loose screw or rivet holding the gear on the shaft? If you're going to replace it, why not check first? Just a thought,,,,,,,...... Luckily, mine work fine. |
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Mark Bridge
From:
Tempe, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 1:43 pm Stewmac tuners
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| That's exactly what I purchased, # 0933 and what I have in the photo. Later this evening I'm going to throw one in a vice and break out the torch so I can loosen the screw holding on the gear. That will allow me to re-attach it to the plate and see if everything lines up good on the tuner pan. Seems like a good temporary fix until we find the real McCoy. |
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Dale Lee
From:
Down Yonder
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 1:47 pm
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Some time back, I did tuner replacements on a Deluxe 8. Here is a link to a post about my experience.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=102175&highlight=
I found that it is not necessary to have the tuners on a strip. When put in loose, they are completely held in place by the tuner stems passing through the slots in the pans, by the string pegs through the pan holes, and by the wood sides of the pan cavity. |
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Mark Bridge
From:
Tempe, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 5:11 pm Gotoh Vintage Tuner Installation
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Butch - Here's what I did, photos attached.
1-Pried the gear cover off and removed the screw holding the gear on the shaft. I had to heat it up with a torch as it was on tight (experience kicked in after stripping out the first one - easy to do).
2-I drilled a 5/64th hole in the shaft, aligned with the other string holes and attached it to the plate. May want to use some loctite.
3-I bent the tabs over and then pounded them flat on a piece of hardwood using a brass bench dog and my Alaska fish whacker (that's improvisation) - it's what I had handy 
4-Installed it in the tuner pan. Everything fits just fine, and not bad for a temporary fix.
Hope this helps. Lots of other good info out there too it seems on the other posts. Mark
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 7:29 pm
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Thanks guys for the comments. Dale-very good point about tuners not having to be attached to the strip.
Mark-Thanks for the how-to steps. Just took apart the bad tuner & I see they used a punch-press to attach the gear--2 of the cogs are bad. How did you take the original off the strip--grind it down where they punched it at the gear or cut it off on either side of the strip? I'll have to get me a torch and something like the bench dog you mentioned. Did you use a special machine shop chuck to anchor the string shaft to drill the hole or can I use a peice of wood with an angle cut into it with clamps? I have a small work-bench type drill press.
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Mark Bridge
From:
Tempe, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 8:10 pm
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| The tuner I replaced was not the original. Someone had installed an over sized tuner with no cover so it was gouging the wood inside the pan cavity pretty badly, and it pulled right out. The brass gears are fairly soft so you could probably cut it free with some heavy duty wire cutters, or easily grind it off. To drill the string hole I first aligned the tuner holes and marked the new one with a sharpie. I just have a small bench top drill press and it came with a vise you can attach to its table. I locked the shaft in the vise, centered it up and anchored it down, and slowly drilled the hole, piece of cake. Sounds like you're almost there... |
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2012 8:57 pm good job !
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Well done. Real nice work there, Mark. Thanks for the complete description and clear photos.
| Mark Bridge wrote: |
| ... Everything fits just fine, and not bad for a temporary fix. ... |
With the apparent scarcity of tuners and pans for older Fenders, unless someone goes into manufacturing exact fit replacement parts, it may not be as temporary a fix as you're thinking right now. But it sure looks like a good enough job to last another fifty years. I like it.
_________________
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2012 3:25 am
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| I wonder if you could use a Dremel Tool to grind down the end of the shaft. Then drill and tap the shaft for a screw, and just replace the gear???????? |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2012 9:10 am
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Man, this has stirred-up some SENSATIONAL INFO--to think at the beginning I knew zip/nothing about this! Isn't this Steel Guitar Forum GREAT!!!
Mark-that's terrible about someone putting in the WRONG TUNER! Not a vintage guitar lover like us, right? Well, I'll follow your advise & see what happens. You're to be commended for your very fine work, but the only drawback is the LOOK of that tapered string shaft--darn, if there only was a way to keep the original!
John-I think you are touching on that very point--just changing the internal gear & keeping most of the tuner intact. I'm right on-the-edge of wondering if I've got the know-how to do that! That's what I understand Terry Mueller has been doing--changing the gear only. I have an email to him, but, so far, no answer. Does anyone know if this is the correct email?: tkm1957@aol.com |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2012 2:53 pm
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Dremel, with a small ball point grinding bit. Remove the gear, clamp the tuner shaft in a vice. and file the end flat. Center punch, and drill and tap the right-sized hole. Best to have some sort of drill press. Drill press vices have a v-shaped cut in one face, that will hold the shaft at exactly the correct angle. Get the right gear, and install the screw, using Lok-Tite.
Anyway,,,, that's what I'd try! |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2012 5:27 pm
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| John-how do you find the RIGHT GEAR? I've just been all over the internet--plenty of tuner info, but nothing on gears. I've put every kind of wording I could think of in the search window, but came-up with nothing. The tuner makers have got to be getting the GEARS from some place? Mark is showing a good picture of the gear in his replacement tuner, but it looks different than the gear on my original tuner, so not sure if it would work with my peg shaft. |
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Gene Warner
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2012 9:50 pm
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I recommend that after drilling the new hole in the tuner shaft, you soften the edges of the hole in some manner, to help avoid string breakage by the sharp edge.
A countersink can be used, files, or probably just a few turns of a size or two larger drill bit, at the hole entrance, on both sides.
Gene Warner
repairman |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2012 2:52 am
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I think you're going to have to ask here, for used gears. I have some. What is the diameter of the gear? How many teeth? The tuner shaft should be round, but with two flat sides that prevent the gear from spinning. The tuner you have is shot unless you can install a new, screw-mounted gear. If it were mine, I'd get out the Dremel, and get the old gear off. I have a drill press, so I'd put the tuner in the vice, and chuck up the smallest round Dremel grinding bit,,, and grind just enough of the peened over end of the shaft, to get the gear pried off.
Seems like a lot of work, but it would be nice to keep as many original parts as possible. A new tuner button is way too shiny. And the new shaft just doesn't look right. But,,,, at least,,,it does work. |
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Mark Bridge
From:
Tempe, Arizona, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2012 6:35 am Gearing up
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Thanks for the positive comments guys. Gene has a great point if you decide to use my temporary fix, make sure you countersink that hole so you're not breaking strings. John having some spare gears is a life saver, and that way you get to keep it all original. I can always send you one of the Gotoh gears if you like, just email me at customd28@gmail.com - I see a metal working lathe and milling machine in my future to start making some of these parts, been a long, long time since the tool and die days....
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http://youtube.com/user/customd28 |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2012 1:16 pm
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John-the gear measures 7/16" Dia. with 12 teeth. Don't know what it measured new, before 50+ years of use! If you have the correct size, that would be great! I have a Dremel & can follow what you said. What bothers me is finding the exact center of the shaft for the punch-mark to drill a hole for the new gear. If it's not centered right, then there would be an off-center wobble. Are there center-punchs that over-lap the sides of different size shafts?
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2012 1:40 pm
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Butch,
The spares I have, have the same dia., and number of teeth. That's no certain guarantee they'll work though. What is the dia. of the tuner shaft?
There are tools to find the centers of rods. But that's pretty durn small. I'd be tempted to take it to a machinist, and have them drill and tap the hole. First though, you need to remove the gear, and see if my gear will fit. You may have to keep looking. But at this point, the tuner is useless, so go ahead and carefully remove the gear. And that might not be as easy as we're hoping! Depends on how hard it's been peened over, and whether the shaft has been "expanded" into the gear. You might need a tiny "wheel Puller" to get it off.
Just thinking along,,,,, Another approach could be to grind the funky gear off with your Dremel. If I were to try that, I'd be sure to work on the side of the tuner shaft that has the flats. Maybe grind on both sides with flats, and pry the gear apart. The gear is brass or bronze,,, should be soft enough to get off.
Once the gear is off, you could touch up the tuner shaft with a file. I think I like this method better.
Send me an email with your address, and I'll send you a couple old tuners that have been sitting in my junk drawer for years! |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2012 10:47 am
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I got the gear off very easily--lightly used my Dremel to grind away the punched area--inserted a screw driver underneath & it popped off! The 2 flat sides are in perfect condition. Won't do any more, until I can try to fit a replacement gear.
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 6 Mar 2012 11:56 am
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| Quote: |
| What bothers me is finding the exact center of the shaft for the punch-mark to drill a hole for the new gear. |
Butch, do you have a drill press? If so, you can clamp down a piece of scrap wood to the drill press table, drill a hole the same size as the tuner shaft, then without unclamping / moving the wood, insert the shaft and it will be perfectly centered to your chuck. From there you can mark the center and or just drill it in place. If you plan to drill it in place, use a little super glue when you set the shaft in the wood. A little heat will release the glue when your done and acetone will clean any residue.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2012 1:23 pm
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Tom-thanks for the great tip, it should work. Also, now that I understand that the CORRECT replacement gear & the string shaft become ONE MOVING UNIT--you could almost purposely drill/tap the hole OFF-CENTER & it would still work! This is my first time doing this, so I'm learning!
I just now received a replacement gear from John Billings & it won't work--it's not the CORRECT SIZE. The side view picture really shows it's not the correct gear. The Stringmaster shaft is too big & I DON'T want to file it to fit. I tried the gear/shaft with the Stringmaster peg shaft--it will turn it some, but it feels like it's not the right gear.
Received an email from Terry Mueller--claims he can replace the gear with proper NOS gear. I'll ask him it he's willing to share where he's getting the proper gear. I'm not trying to steal any of his business--just trying to repair my own guitar tuner.
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2012 9:41 am
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Well, I can see that I'm not going to get any help from certain people who make money for tuner repairs--for whatever reason!(ha ha). I was back on the internet & I found-out the proper terminology for the gear--BRASS SPUR GEAR. I came across a couple of suppliers for the brass spur gear, but I'm at a loss for the moment on how to communicate the proper size to them. One supplier had a size chart in decimals. I don't have any calipers, so I would need the exact dimensions in decimal form. If anyone can furnish that info, I'd really appreciate it.
Any info I would gather on this, I'll gladly SHARE to all! |
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