b0b please remove

Johnny Cox · Posted 21 Feb 2012 12:20 am

I know I'm going to take lots of heat from this and rightfully so. But there is a ligitimate point to it. All of us have our heroes. It may be Emmons or Rugg or Hughey or Myrick or Day. They had their heroes too. They were Byrd and Murphy and McAuliff and Wiggins and Boggs. But me & Paul & Mike didn't have the forum or tab or all the stuff that's available now. So my question is this, why does everyone spend so much time sitting at the computer when our heroes spent their time at their guitars. You can cuss and discuss your copedent and your rack and which guitar plays just a tad better than another but that ain't going to help your touch, tone, technique or knowledge one bit. The only thing that will help that is practice. It will take most of us a lifetime to learn everthing that is on an S-10 3x2. Think about it. Don't tell me your old or your not as good. You can either play or you can't, it's a gift, you can't buy it. Your tone will not get better iuyf you spend $5,000 on a new ???????. If you want to be a great player sit down at your guitar, plug it directly into your amp and practice. It's a hard reallity friends but true. Thats how my heroes did it, thats how their heroes did it and thats how your heroes did and will do it. You can't get good advice from people asking for good advice.....
Your steel picker friend, Dumplin.
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Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

One thing in my case, being 74. I'm still picking in bands, but my priorites have changed from when I was "35".

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

Well said Johnny. Now I shouldn't be reading this, so I'm going to switch the computer off and get practicing.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

A good thread, and lots to think about. As you know, Johnny, "back in the day" all that discussion about guitars and gear and gigs went on over the phone or in person whenever steel players saw each other. When I was starting I had an older player pal who I would visit to learn about mechanics and how to make my guitar play better. He showed me everything he knew, but honestly I've learned way more here on the forum. You have to slog through some, er, fluff, but there has been some really great knowledge shared here, and I don't fault people who may be otherwise isolated from enjoying the camaraderie.

I watched other musicians carefully and saw many who just lived and breathed their craft, often at the expense of relationships and other life experiences I decided I wanted to have. So I'm one who, while nowhere near the picker I could be with total dedication (and more concentrated practice), have enjoyed a lot of life of which playing steel has been a large part.

I may not be the best judge of how good I am, but here are some folks who think I've been good enough: http://markvanallen.com/discography.html

Best wishes for more seat time for all of us!
(And hearty thanks to everybody here who've shared their accumulated wisdom!)
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Clark Doughty · From: KANSAS

Well in my opinion it's not so well said Johnny. Sad

You've probably been playing so long you've forgotten what it's like to start on this instrument totally cold and not knowing a thing about it. I've found that many of you so called "pros" simply can't teach someone like me who knew nothing about the PSG because you've simply forgotten what it's like to be where I am. Many of you guys can't bring yourself down to my level to really teach. There are many who can play but very few who can actually teach.
Your comment comes across as a bit "arrogant" for somone of your reputation on a forum that has helped so many would be players. No, I'm sure I'll never be the player you are but about 75% of what I've learned in the past almost two years is a result of this forum. I am one of the fortunate few who have found what I consider a "great teacher", who happens to be one of the most well recognized PROS today, who can actually teach and for that I'm grateful. I will continue "sitting in front of my computer, "on the forum" and learning more there than most any other way I can think of. And yes I also spend hours at my PSG and yes I will learn to play this instrument..................clark

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

the reason is, as Cal & Mark hit on, is that those days are GONE - a new player cant just go hang around the Sho-Bud factory all day anymore, chatting with the session players that drop by - then going downtown to jams that continue to the wee hours of the morning, sitting at the bar after hours swaping stories. there is NO club circuit, there is NO apprenticeship programs like years ago, NO gigging 6 days a week, etc

Thing is, i just about guarantee that BACK THEN, everyone sat around a talked about the SAME kinds of stuff thats discussed here, its not like this is anything new topic wise. dont say ya'll never sat around discussing copedants, the "new model" or what X players gear was, or who was the hot picker, the newest electronic gadget, on and on...

THIS IS IT - plus, its just how we communicate now, and probably from here on out. everything seems to be going to the comfort of your own home. why go to a football game/concert/parade when you can have it all in high-definition from your cozy lounge chair - no traffic, parking hassles, drunks, loud music....thats what is killing the club/live music biz...anyone over the age of 25 isnt going to put up with all that BS, i'll sit at home and smoke my cigs, drink a cold beer, kick back and watch 698 channels of cable /24 hrs of hunting/fishing/NASCAR channel, then wake up at 3am in my own chair instead of some bar parking lot.

I think that its not quite accurate that the previous generations somehow had it tougher, learning wise - i think just the opposite. Sure, you didnt have YouTube, the forum and tab, but that doesnt make a player anyway - plenty of proof of that - it still all comes down to hard work and "your butt in the seat behind the steel" - as Joe Wright famously told me
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Kenny Martin · From: Chapin, S.C. USA

Damn Cal you hit it on the head.

When i played the Ryman with MTB i came in the night before the saturday we played. I had picks in the pocket and went down on broadway. I ask about sitting in and man the cold shoulders were everywhere.

I guess since nobody knew i could play they may have been worried if i could or something.

Mr. Cox, i went to see you play at Real Country one night back in the day. Early 80's and met you! You said, get up there and pick one! Yep i was too nervous and just sit there watching you kill it.
What happen to those days as Cal said???

Hey, to anwser your question, i can play! I sit at my steel 3 to 4 times a week. I agree with you!

I also feel that youtube, which i use, and all these tracks to play with kills the natural gift to sit and play at a jam.
I like it when somebody gets up to sing, says grab a G and hang on! Then you find out if you can play.

Seems to be karaoke steel these days at jams.

I once heard and i'm not sure its true, that a few pros would rather you sit and listen to a steel lick or lead ride and learn it, than using a tab. It was said that one pro stated, this way you learn feel, emotion and learn to play!

I love my hero's and my new hero's today but in my small world i have a few players that want to copy me. Ask for lessons and or tabs. I tell them i don't know how i played it, i would have to sit down see if i can tell them.
I do tell them to put the vynl record of PF, TW, LG, BE and way back in the day for me Pete Drake, pick the needle up and sit it back down in the spot of the lick you are learning. It worked for me!

Ok, here's where i get in trouble as you, you either can play or you need to by a tennis racket!
I totally agre with what you said!...... Wink

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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

This forum isn't just for working pros. There are all kinds of people, with all kinds of different levels of commitment and talent, who come from all kinds of different circumstances, that are benefiting from this forum.

The internet is addictive, and one can waste a lot of time on it. And it's certainly true that virtually no-one gets really good on any instrument without diligent, focused practice over an extended period of time. So the internet can interfer with one's progress on any musical instrument.

But you don't have to have the goal of being a top shelf pro player to be welcome to participate on this forum. And one can learn a lot on this forum, once you learn to take everything with a grain of salt, and consider the source. Due to this forum I no longer feel so isolated, as I try to progress on the instrument.

Steve Spitz · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

I think there is a lot of wisdom in what Johnny says.
Here`s my take :
I gain a lot of knowledge from players on this forum. It`s the main reason I spend too much time here.
However....There is only one way to apply that forum knowledge. It`s by sitting behind your steel and practising, which I think may be Johnny`s point, and I agree.
It`s great when accomplished players take the time to post something they think will help others.
Thanks to all who do.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

years back many musicians sat around in the bars and talked music , they didn't have an internet obviously. But that doesn't mean they didn't spend idle time doing something else or social time hanging out...

Of course dedicated practice time is the answer to improvement, but everyone needs some time for social....even asking dumb questions are relevant...

Now I fully agree that if a person is NOT in a dedicated daily practice routine and spends gobs of time chatting or hanging out on line then some priorities need to be set.

But that's a different discussion from the title of this thread..."How many can actually play".. When I first opted to read this thread I thought you were asking if we could actually play the dang thing...
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John Coffman · From: Wharton,Texas USA

Hey Johnny you have some good points. I agree that many people look for short cuts and search in the wrong places to find only what hard work and practice brings. IMHO I know I am a bedroom player and have not desire to become a road player. I love the instrument and enjoy learning what I can. I am so glad there are tabs, lessons, videos etc to help players like me who never had a chance when young to learn any musical instrument. I have had the good fortune of being able to learn from some good players. I come to the forum to learn and build friend ships that comes from the love of the steel guitar. Having nice equipment is wonderful if you can afford it. I never had any formal music training and I have had to learn through others and I same so blessed because of it. I believe if you really want to become good at playing the steel guitar you have to put the time behind steel and soak up every bit of training material you can find. Amateur steel guitarist should build more on the fundamentals and development of good tone. We also have to stay motivated and fed with talented leaders in the world of steel guitar. Lets face the facts if you want to become good you have to develop your skills. Please help motivate us to develop these skills and mature to the point were we feel we are good players so we to can pass if on to others.
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Jim Park · From: Carson City, Nv

Johnny,

You have put into words a subject that has come up before, but is rarely paid any attention to. I think that the interactive media available makes learning licks and passages by wrote much easier that it was when you learned to play. I started in 85 and was started on the Melbay/Dewitt Scott book. plus thousands of hours disecting cassett tapes to learn passages and technique.BUT........ my biggest learning curve came on the bandstand. With BIAB its too easy to have a "do-over" I had a Teacher/mentor( Duane Brown) that would step over and mash my volume pedal down if I wasn't playing loud enough and also taught me Bandstand ettiqette, and Musicianship which I find sorely lacking these days in bands.Is BIAB a good learning tool? you bet it is........but the bandstand is better...with that said, the lack of live venues in most of the country is hurting the ability to learn to play live. I for one have given up the idea that I can ever play at a proffessional level , however that doesnt stop me from attempting to ALWAYS play better that I did the time before. As I listen to the tracks that I record locally, areas for improvement rapidly surface!!! LOL
Jim

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Johnny, we all have a different story. In the end,those that started playing as a child or young teen, then progressed to playing professionally a few years later, ARE going to be better players. If they then spend most of their adult life as a professional musician, don't get sidetracked with problems like drugs or alcohol, we should expect them to really know how to play. That scenario doesn't fit most of us.

I am the first to admit that I don't have a great deal of musical talent. I started on pedal steel at age 35. I had a job that required me to work nights and most weekends. But I wanted to learn. I put a lot of time in and made very slow progress for a long while. 30 years later, I consider myself a average/competent/mediocre steel player. It has taken quite a bit of effort and time, and money too, to get this mediocre! No matter how hard we try, most of us will never reach the level of Buddy or Paul or you. But that's OK, I'm probably a better pipefitter then they are, I spent 37 years doing it every day. Smile

Looking back, I know I would be better if I had playing started young and got some good guidance early on, but that's not the way it went. But I do agree with you, there are a lot of people that are not willing to apply themselves and invest time learning. They probably will never advance very far.

James Mayer · Posted 21 Feb 2012 9:51 am **Re: So how many can really play?**

Allen Peterson · From: Katy, Texas

I have no illusions of ever being a "great" steel guitar player, but I can play.

I spend 10 to 12 hours a day at my day job. I don't think my boss would appreciate me playing my guitar for a few hours, when I should be working. But, I can get on the forum during my lunch hour or on a break and see what's going on. This keeps me current with new equipment, etc., and it is just plain enjoyable to associate with other steel guitars players.

I still manage every day to get an hour or so of practice at home to CDs that I have purchased in Dallas and online. There's nothing wrong with this. I slowly improve as time goes on.

I get out an play with my band every once in a while, and that's enough for me.

So, I am able to maintain my employment, be a good father and grandfather, and still enjoy the steel guitar.

Allen Peterson
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chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i'm with jim park in the 'bandstand practice' theory. i spent way more time on stage either working or sitting in than practicing at home. the pressure to not make a fool of yourself helps the learning curve. i used to set a little tape recorder on the floor regularly and then listen to it on the way home. the better i got, the less it made me cringe. and jim does play very well on stage for pay...that's professional, jim.

Tim Heidner · From: Groves, TX

that's it, b0b, shut 'er down so we can all go practice. Mr. Green

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

My friend Johnny has really thrown the gauntlet down with his post, and I've yet to digest it all because he said a mouthful, as did a lot of his respondents. But here's my $.02.

The guys that can "really play," not all but I'd wager the vast majority of them, had several things going for them (and since I think I'm amongst those who can really play, I'll include myself.)

First, we started playing music at an early age. Then we committed ourselves to it and found jobs playing for which we frequently forsook school and daytime careers and often families. We weren't distracted, we were obsessed because at a young age we could afford to be.

We were fortunate that we were hired by bands that had more experienced players to mentor us and teach us the ropes of how to act on and off the bandstand, what to listen to and what and who NOT to listen to.

When we were off the road, we had nightclub jobs available to us where we worked 4 to 6 hours a night, 5 or 6 nights a week, and lots of them. This was because there was no Internet, there were very few TV stations, and dancing was a very popular recreational activity for a great percentage of the population.

All of these circumstances create an environment in which a person with a natural gift for music... and we can't discount that God-given gift... could excel and achieve great things with his/her playing.

A lot of those situations simply don't exist anymore. There are fewer road band opportunities than there were in days gone by. There are no longer the nightclub circuits that provided so much work for so many regional players. And very importantly, the cost of living has increased exponentially in comparison to the average working wage of most musicians, professional and semi-pro alike. We could afford to live cheaply in those days.

John, I know where you're coming from. But remember this: when we were "kids" we had a lot more opportunities to grow and achieve within the environments we found ourselves. We were a blessed generation and group of players.

I don't criticize or fault someone who, having come to steel guitar late in life and is relegated to being a bedroom picker, isn't playing up the level they'd like to be at in their heart-of-hearts. They made their choices and we made ours. Hell, I'm enjoying teaching folks the stuff it took me years to learn.
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Junior Knight · From: Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...

Herb said it!...
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Malcolm McMaster · From: Beith Ayrshire Scotland

Clark,the only arrogance I see in this post is from you, Johnny Cox makes a reasonable point and from my perspective having met and talked to Johnny at Dallas and having received help with setting up my guitar, he went well out of his way to assist me.Having talked to fellow steelers, all agreed that he has been a great help to many of us whether it be advise on playing or on the mechanics of our guitars.
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CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

why did i join this ward ?
i can't really play worth a hoot compared to many here but hey, i like to hang around w: you all
those who can & those who don't

we would'nt be here today if it's was'nt fer all you Old school kats who dished it out for us
actually this topic brings to mind what i was told by some Ol' folks from the country here
" back then we had nothin' but we had everything "
" nowadays, y'all got everything & you ain't got nuthin' ! "
it is amazing that now w: internet, all the stuff, vids, tabs & ressources readily available to get one steelin'
just look at the membership here
i still spend mucho tiempo figuring parts out by ear & praticing as much as i can
i don't get out & play w: others as much as i'd like to but i do agree, that's where it at
it'll make ya' or break ya' Winking

Johnny Cox · Posted 21 Feb 2012 11:39 am

Now that's good... Some of you read and got part, some got offended (which was never my intent) and a few did really understand the point. Steve Spit, you actually completely got it. I love all the tools that are now available to all of us to learn as much as we can about steel guitar. But ultimately it just you and time at the guitar that does the trick.
If I came off as arrogant or as though I was outting anyone down I'm very sorry. My intent was GET BACK TO BASICS...
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"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.

Johnny Cox · Posted 21 Feb 2012 11:46 am

Now that's good... Some of you read and got part, some got offended (which was never my intent) and a few did really understand the point. Steve Spit, you actually completely got it. I love all the tools that are now available to all of us to learn as much as we can about steel guitar. But ultimately it just you and time at the guitar that does the trick.
If I came off as arrogant or as though I was outting anyone down I'm very sorry. My intent was GET BACK TO BASICS...
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"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.

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