Tuning issue with my Push pull Emmons

Marcus Provis · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Hi guys,

I am still quite new to the steel, and certainly it's mechanics, and have a slight problem.

Today while playing I noticed that I was not getting the correct pitch when lowering the E lever on the 8th string. It only started happening today, as it was fine during my practice yesterday.

I saw that the finger for that string was not moving right up to the stop, and in order to achieve close to the correct tuning when the Eb lever was engaged, I had to place much more pressure than usual. (I found that was not such a good thing as it was causing another rod near it to bend slightly if I put too much pressure)

Once I turned the steel upside-down to have a look, I found that the push rod was not traveling far enough... It looks as if the springs are OK on the affected area, but I may have missed something.
I gave all the parts a bit more of a lubrication with the machine oil, and had a go at playing it again, but still no luck. Sometimes the string doesn't return to the correct pitch either. I have just had a new set of strings put on recently, and everything was fine until now.

Thank you in advance for your help,

Marcus
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Emmons Black Rock S-10, Hilton Volume, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King, Fender Champion 40, Line 6 Echo Park Delay, Bullet Tone Bar.

richard burton · From: Britain

You may have replaced the 8th string with one of a larger gauge, which would cause the problem.
The usual diameter for the 8th string (E9) is 30 thou (.030) wound.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Quite likely your E to F lever on that string is adjusted too close, not allowing your E to Eb to go all the way back to the stop screw. This is a common problem with push/pulls and pull/release. If that turns out to be the case, you will have to get more travel in your E to F lever.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro

Tommy White · From: Nashville

You might also check for loose allen screws that hold rod pullers in place on the cross shaft. They will sometimes loosen over time.

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

About a year ago, the 8th string 1/2 step lower on my 79 S-10 PP suddenly started only lowering about 1/4 step. It turned out that the compression spring between the collar and the bellcrank had broken and as a result it was not moving the "push" rod as much as it should have been. The two half's of the broken spring had worked their way together so that on 1st glance, it did not look broken. I thought that the collar might have slipped on the rod and was just about to adjust it a bit closer when I finally noticed that the compression spring looked a little funny and discovered that it was indeed broken. It only took Jim Palenscar a few min's to slap a new spring on that rod and it's been fine ever since. So, I'd say "take a close look at your compression spring" as your problem came on suddenly and the two ways that will happen are if the collar slips or the spring breaks.
JE:-)>
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Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

There's a lot of good advice in this thread. After a visual inspection for all the above, if you're still having problems, do yourself a favor.....loosen the 8th string raise (E-->F) collar. This eliminates the pullrod as a problem, for the time being.

Plug in your tuner and manually tune the changer finger by pushing and pulling to E, F and Eb.

Then work the Eb lever, by hand, to make sure the push finger is traveling all the way to the lower stop. If it doesn't, move the collar forward toward the lowering bellcrank......if the lower finger still does not go all the way, adjust out the knee lever stop to get a bit more additional travel. You need to make sure that the lower works correctly with the pulls disconnected before you reconnect the E-->F change.

Once it works, hook up the E-->F pull. You'll need leave enough slack between the pull-crank and its collar to allow the E-->Eb change to happen. If you don't the lower finger will be blocked by the raise finger from its complete excursion. This is integral to the p/p design.

Happy huntin'

Marcus Provis · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Wow, thank you kindly for all your helpful suggestions guys! I am very grateful to all of you!

After reading all of your replies, I checked my steel thoroughly underneath, and around where the rod lowers the 8th string to Eb, and also the corresponding F raise lever, and noticed that when I lowered the E lever it did not cause the finger to travel the whole distance, perhaps a couple of millimeters short, and I could push the finger the rest of the way by hand.

When I did this the Raise rod for the F lever moved slightly. I checked again the collar for the E lever and the spring was intact, but collar a little loose, so I have re set it closer, and that seemed to have fixed the problem. After testing it several more times, it is now lowering correctly, and the F raise is working fine also.

I did, however, notice a loose collar that was not attached to anything on the same rod as the one in question, not sure what that one is for, but assuming it's there for a reason! I didn't know where it was supposed to be, but it's right near the Eb Lever on the push rod.

Anyhow thank you to all again, and I will continue to keep an eye on it, hopefully it will behave for now!

Kind regards, AND MANY THANKS.

Marcus Smile

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Emmons Black Rock S-10, Hilton Volume, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King, Fender Champion 40, Line 6 Echo Park Delay, Bullet Tone Bar.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Good to hear you have solved the problem Marcus -- I think you know more about push-pulls than me already Very Happy

(I've never owned one as you know)
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
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Marcus Provis · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

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