| Author |
Topic: Bringing a knife to a gun fight. |
Bo Legg
|
Posted 7 Feb 2012 9:59 pm |
|
| I couldn’t help noticing you guys don't get much respect at your local Steel Guitar Association jams. |
|
|
 |
Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 7 Feb 2012 11:08 pm
|
|
| From who, those with no respect? |
|
|
|
Kevin Brown
From:
England
|
Posted 7 Feb 2012 11:24 pm
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Steve Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, GA
|
|
|
|
Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 5:21 am
|
|
More like ...
Versus ...
 |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 5:39 am
|
|
I dont think you can call it bringing a gun to a knife fight when you have to make 3 trips to the truck and use a luggage cart to haul it in, then spending another 30mins setting it up and tuning it - by then you'd be gutted and bled to death.
i dont know how it must be at your steel jams, but around here, most of the pedal players LOVE to hear the non-pedal, most of them being 60+ and remembering how it was done "old school" before they had to drag around 150lbs worth of stuff.
I am taking my B6 to the next big jam (along with my D-10)
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 7:29 am
|
|
I have not noticed that kind of admiration for non-pedal among pedal steel players.
In fact the subject rarely if ever comes up.
Most of the PSG players I know are younger and I don’t know of one that plays non-pedal. I can only go by what I personally observe.
Buddy Emmons could blow a lot of us PSG players off the stage with just a 6 string non-pedal and I don’t really even think of him among the greats of non-pedal.
I only posted this because I feel non-pedal players don’t really get the respect they deserve from the Steel Guitar Community.
My father (Reverend Bishop Dwight Moody) was a very good non-pedal player and he definitely has my respect. |
|
|
|
Joe Snow
From:
Argyle,Texas, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 7:44 am respect
|
|
| Don't know much about the jams, but at TSGA jamboree last year, Cindy Cashdollar was inducted into the steel guitar hall of fame and the crowd in the main hall (lots of PSG'ers) were quite blown away with her performance. I saw lots of respect. |
|
|
|
Kevin Brown
From:
England
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 8:59 am
|
|
So Bo, are you saying that within your circles we are not respected ? That is certainly not the case down my way, are these your friends or associates ?  I dont know of any pedal players that are not in awe of Murphey, Morrell, dont understand the relevance of the post actually, both Paul Franklin and I have worked with Mark Knopfler, I observed no hierarchy when talking with him. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 9:33 am
|
|
Yes. Cindy, Chet Atkins or any well known artist on any instrument could have shown up there and the results would be predictably the same.
I’m talking here about the average Joe showing up at the Jam.
I’m talking about folks acting respectable to the person but just impatiently tolerating his non-pedal butting in on “Mansion On The Hill”. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 9:40 am
|
|
Never been to a steel jam, but I wouldn't feel any kind of inadequacy if I did attend one with my lap steel.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 9:46 am
|
|
what may be surprising to many PSGers (that always seem to be out of gigs) is that i have found among the young "americana / .alt" crowd is a HUGE preference for the non-pedal over the pedal. i have played with a few of these bands and every one insisted non-pedal, even though i could have been more "effective" with some pedal sounds, they DID NOT want that sound...and hey, that was less crap to drag around -it may be the tendency to play too much with pedals, or the hick stigma, or the fact they take up too much stage space, play to loud, dont sing and have a boring stage presence, etc???? that is No Respect, considering the time to learn one, equip cost, weight and accessories to drag around for the dismal pay
while over in the Pedal section they talk of no gigs and the future demise of PSG, from my observation, the various forms of non-pedal, (which include lap "slide" steel & acoustic resonator/weissenborn) is experiencing a HUGE renaissance.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II
Last edited by Jerome Hawkes on 8 Feb 2012 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 9:50 am
|
|
Bo, Do you remember telling me over and over again not to post here on the Forum on a subject that I don’t know much about and then expect positive results. Looks like you forgot.
Besides at Steel Guitar Associations jams they never play “Mansion On the Hill” and if every member could get away with it they would just bring one small amp and a lap steel.
It was pretty much over for you here when they invoked Paul Franklin.
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 8 Feb 2012 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Chris Gabriel
From:
Oregon, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 9:51 am Don't know what you are talking about!
|
|
I'm gonna have to "chime" in here, with my experience...
It was about oh say 3, 4 years ago, 3 i guess.
I heard about steel guitar, and fixed up an ol lap steel i had "won" in an automobile trade.
I started playin' and learnin' from a book, mel bay somethin or rather...for C6. Also round this time i got a pedal steel! Which boggled me, I preffered lap steel at the time, bein a beginner and all.
Then I read about the steelguitar forum, signed up, and found out about a steel guitar jam in my neck of the woods, Portland Oregon.
Well, with some coaxing from local steel players, I got some bravery and brought both my pedal steel and lap steel to the jam.
I learned the songs from the setlist which had been posted, and went to "Bushwhackers" a club where the event was being held.
First off, everyone was smiling. And I met the coordinator (Larry Behm, fellow forumite) and he welcomed me with open arms immediately. Nice.
He introduced me to some of the other players, and before long the jam began.
I was so nervous, and so green, and so lost on some of those songs. I played my pedal steel alot in the beginning of the jam, but then we came to the final song of the day, Steel Guitar Rag. I switched to my non-pedal guitar.
I'll never forget this, it was my turn to play, and I busted out some of what i had been practicing, nothin fancy, blues licks and some harmonics. When my solo ended the entire place erupted in cheers! I felt like a rock star! I'll never forget that reaction, I didn't expect it. It sticks with me to this day.
Afterwards, folks did metion their fondness for the non-pedal guitar, and expressed gratitude that i brought it and played it. I was grinning from ear to ear the rest of the day.
I was an average Joe, but recieved a tremendous amount of respect from the mostly PSG group, though I will mention Twayn was there, playing non pedal too.
Pedal , non-pedal, we're all brothers and sisters in Steel. Folks who feel otherwise, maybe they'll come around...
Chris |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 10:22 am
|
|
It seems all replies here are contradictions of my reality and my judgment can not compromise invoking pure faith alone.
So “Stay thirsty my friends”. |
|
|
|
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 10:55 am For what it's worth..................
|
|
BO.......I'm in YOUR Corner! I've been flamed before for attempting to articulate on this issue but having been there and expereienced it, I couldn't agree more, with your view.
Every since the pedal steel players decided it was an entirely new invention to which they hold the golden, electronic pitch pipe....lap steel players in some communities are looked down upon or at best, as a poor bastard child of guitars.
At one jam, I was awaiting my turn to play some common old western swing standard on my faithful
little Ric when a stranger to me, looked down his nose at my little 'toy guitar' and offered to take my turn in the event I might not feel up to playing this common as an old shoe, western tune. I was stunned but considered the source.
I'm with you bro'......... Hang in there. You're not alone! |
|
|
|
Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 11:10 am
|
|
Ray...you need to hang out with a better class of steel players.  I've never experienced that sort of negative feeling towards other steel players whether or not they have pedals attached to their guitar.
To paraphrase Jerry Byrd, "If you can play, it doesn't matter what type of guitar you're using. If you can't play, it doesn't matter what type of guitar you're using."
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
|
|
|
Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 12:42 pm
|
|
| Either one is the tool of choice, both of equal merit. That someone would deminish the other is rediculous, but I guess it happens. However, I'd say there is a considerable amount of peddlers that have less than adequate ability to get the most out of the bar, since the feet tend to overcompensate for all that while not plowing the depths that can only be had by expressive bar movement. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 1:45 pm
|
|
Thanks Ray. I'm glad to see one great non-pedal person that doesn't live in a fantasy world.
I’m still looking for all those non-pedal players selected in the more recent Hall Of Fame selections. I guess we’re all out great non-pedal players. |
|
|
|
Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 1:45 pm
|
|
| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
what may be surprising to many PSGers (that always seem to be out of gigs) is that i have found among the young "americana / .alt" crowd is a HUGE preference for the non-pedal over the pedal. i have played with a few of these bands and every one insisted non-pedal, even though i could have been more "effective" with some pedal sounds, they DID NOT want that sound...and hey, that was less crap to drag around -it may be the tendency to play too much with pedals, or the hick stigma, or the fact they take up too much stage space, play to loud, dont sing and have a boring stage presence, etc???? that is No Respect, considering the time to learn one, equip cost, weight and accessories to drag around for the dismal pay
while over in the Pedal section they talk of no gigs and the future demise of PSG, from my observation, the various forms of non-pedal, (which include lap "slide" steel & acoustic resonator/weissenborn) is experiencing a HUGE renaissance. |
I recently acquired a psg. When I told a band mate about this, he looked at my lap steel and said, "well, that's really great and I'm sure you'll sound good on it, but don't stop playing this one. This sound is perfect for our band." FWIW, it is primarily a rock/pop/southern rock cover band. I think his assessment is mostly correct, but dang if I'm not gonna see what happens when I start to figure this psg thing out and bring it to a rehearsal. (....I sure HOPE I can figure it out!) |
|
|
|
Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 2:05 pm
|
|
I would have loved to see the look on the guys face at the jam when Ray took his turn.
I'm sure he schooled him.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 2:06 pm
|
|
If Ray mentions Jerry B or speaks of being treated poorly in a topic any where in any of the index categories the flaming will start.
The very fact that you have been segregated as a group speaks volumes.
Steel Without pedals implies that you have something missing. Why aren’t your steels referred to simply as Steel Guitar and the other as Steel Guitar with pedals. |
|
|
|
Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 2:30 pm
|
|
"...I'd like to dispose of the term 'non-pedal' steel guitar...I play steel guitar, and they play pedal steel guitar." - Jerry Byrd.
Looks like you and JB are on exactly the same page Bo - works for me. |
|
|
|
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 2:39 pm I play the ELECTRIC HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR!
|
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyNf2Jaz3z8
Several other pedal steel guitar tunes by me are located on that same YOU TUBE site.
So much emphasis is given to whether someone plays a lap steel or a pedal steel guitar......it really irritates ME!
I play the Electric Hawaiian Steel Guitar......
At first it was a hollow, wooden, round hole, flat top model, just like GENE ARTERIE used to play. It had his name emblazened on the neck for the world to see. By sticking a metal nut on the guitar, thereby raising the strings sufficiently to keep the stainless steel bar from banging across the top of the raised frets........it became a Hawaiian Steel Guitar.
As I grew sufficiently for my feet to reach the floor, I was provided an "F"hole, arch top. advanced steel guitar. I progressed to a beautiful sunburst 1948 model, Gibson electric Hawaiian Steel Guitar, thence to a triple-8 Fender stand-alone and ultimately my 4 neck 32 string BIGSBY with 6 pedals back in 1956.
I thereby came to be the first PEDAL STEEL GUITAR player in the city of Portland at one of the areas largest, nicest dance halls.
Ultimately LEE KNIGHT from Seattle, brought his triple neck Bigsby to this city thereby becoming the second pedal steel guitarist in Portland, OR.
In 1972, I acquired my Dbl-10 EMMONS with standard 8x4 pedal arrangement.
Finally, around 1999, I managed to acquire a Rickenbacher 6-string Bakelite, lap steel.I play these excellent instruments, all steel guitars, interchangeably. I play non-pedal tunes on the pedal equipped steel guitars without difficulty. I play songs recorded on pedal steel guitars on my lap steel with some improvison.
I am an ELECTRIC HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR PLAYER.....and play both variations without any discrepancies. |
|
|
|
Stephen Baker
From:
Lancashire, UK
|
Posted 8 Feb 2012 3:14 pm
|
|
| This whole thread makes me think of a plough horse sneering at a mule in the parking lot at John Deer. |
|
|
|
