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Topic: Common steel problem... is there an easy solution? |
Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 9 Jan 2012 7:46 pm |
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Howdy there,
So Im having this problem when tuning my 5th string A pedal...
When I tune the pedal up it actually puts my open string sharp. I tune the
open string down again but then the pedal is flat. Its driving me nuts!
Ive heard of this to be a common PSG problem..... Can anyone give me
help on how I can fix this?
Any help would be extremely appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Leo
Last edited by Leo Grassl on 19 Sep 2019 9:59 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 9 Jan 2012 7:54 pm
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you will need to back off the nylon tuners until you know they are not touching the changer, you will have two there for the 5th sting, then tune it open then tune your pedals, what you have is one of them is pressing against the changer.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 1:43 am
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Joseph covers what's happening, and it is only a problem on PSGs where the mechanics for whatever reason isn't set up and balanced right for the strings used. Have you changed string set - introduced different string thicknesses - lately? Maybe modified pedal travel and/or tried to balance pedal force lately?
Since it is the easiest thing in the world to change string sets and modify the various mechanical hook-ups, stops, linkages and resulting travel between foot and changer to where pull-rod travels are far enough out to create problems, badly balanced mechanics in PSGs may of course be more common than I like to think 
A pull-rod's ideal travel distance for a given change is always found/achieved by balancing travel/throw in the mechanics affecting that pull-rod underneath the PSG, from pedal/lever via bellcranks to changer, to a point near where pull-rod travel is long enough for the specific raise/lower change to take place, observing that there always is a little freeplay between nylon nut and changer for non-activated pedal/lever to prevent the pull-rod from affecting open tuning.
Nylon nuts are for fine-tuning of fully activated change only, and if you can't get the necessary freeplay between nylon nut and changer when no pedal is activated, you must give the relevant pull-rod longer travel between non-activated and fully-activated pedal/lever change by changing hook-up point for pull-rod at the relevant bellcrank.
A hook-up point on bellcrank further from the bellcrank shaft for pull-rod going to changer, gives longer pull-rod travel, closer to shaft shortens pull-rod travel. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 6:14 am
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Georg said it all, but let me try to clarify a few things.
If I understand what your saying, Leo, you can't tune the 5th string at all. You might have a different gauge string on there than what the pedal was setup for. So, the simplest solution would be to try a different gauge string.
Other than that....
I'm not sure what model of guitar you have, but, in a nutshell, you have 3 options....
One, move the pull rod, at the bellcrank, one hole further from the guitar body.
Two, move the pull rod, at the changer, one hole further from the body.
Three, adjust the pedal travel for more distance by adjusting the pedal stop screw (if your guitar has one).
Only do one of the above. You just only need your A pedal to pull for a little longer distance.
Balancing pulls can be a real learning process. The goal is to have all the strings on a given pedal start and stop at the same time, or at least as close as possible, while paying attention to how much pressure is required to activate that pedal.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 6:41 am string
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| Excellent advice. Also check your nut rollers to make sure each one is lubed and not sticking. I've pretty much always used a .017P for my 5th. Check the 10th string also. It should be a .036W or .038W. |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 1:09 pm Hey Guys thanks!
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Thanks you guys for such great and detailed advice!
I put the rod on the bell crank one hole away from the guitar, and bingo!
It tuned right up where its supposed to be and is staying perfectly in tune.
The pedal was almost a half step sharp when I tested the string after the
adjustment, but all I had to do was loosen it a whole bunch and its playing
like a dream. It can drive me crazy all the stuff that goes on with this instrument
but its satisfying, and even a little fun learning how to do some of this stuff on my
own. Couldnt have done it without you guys |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 1:14 pm
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I didnt try changing the string gauge because the guy I bought this guitar from
played it for years with the same gauge( an experienced player) and didnt have
a problem. I am curious as to why I had to make this adjustment in the first place
but as long as my guitar is in tune and playing well I guess I cant complain. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 1:32 pm
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rule #1...if it works don't question it!
there is no accounting for what happened before you owned it. there's a lot of improper maintenance and adjustment potential from less intelligent life forms. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2012 1:38 pm
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Well, very good, Leo. I'm glad you got it sorted out. As you can now see, it's good to be able to do some of these adjustments yourself. I can't figure why things changed from the previous owner...that's strange.
Anyway, have fun pickin'.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 6:33 am pedal tunes but now nylon tuner is DANGEROUS projectile!
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Yeah I dont know why either... The only thing I thought that might have made
a difference could be my method of tuning versus the previous owners. But still
I would think it would be close enough. Last night however when playing with
a band (practicing luckily) my Nylon tuner from the 5th string went shooting
across the room. I put it back and tuned up but this happened three times
in three hours..... anyone know what I screwed up there? Our lead singer told me
to get a new guitar on his way out the door! If only he knew.... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 6:40 am
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You need a new nylon tuner. You might be able to turn the loose one around, thread tape it or clamp it with some pliers to distort it so that it might hold until you get another one. If you have a change that you don't use, you might steal that one.
I don't know what brand of guitar you have, but if there are spacers between the nylon and the changer, be sure it didn't rocket off as well.
Many vendors sell replacement nylon tuners. It's a good idea to keep a half dozen or so on hand just for this reason.
The manufacturer of your guitar should have them as well. This is better because they can be different sizes. A vendor who sells steel guitar products should know though by the brand of your guitar.
Best of Luck 
BTW, since you are having a tuning problem with this string, some of it may have been caused by the tuner slipping on the rod or hanging somehow, so a new tuner might help that too. |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 6:52 am
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Jerry,
I did not think of that and that makes a lot of sense! I am playing a Derby
D10. I can steel a nylon from my C6th neck which I don't play using many pedals
yet. And yes the spacer between the changer and the tuner was shot dangerously
in the direction of an innocent lead guitar player, but it was recovered.
time to go experiment, Thanks so much |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 6:59 am
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Hi Leo, try a 0.18 for the 5th string!
Otherwise, contact Bob Galloway at Derby (also here on the forum) He knows all ins and outs of your Derby.
regards, Johan |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 7:00 am
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Derby uses a short nylon with a metal spacer. Inspect that spacer for mushrooming. If it is, it might be hanging up on the threads of your pull rod. It should not be distorted and should slide over the rod easily.
I might have a couple nylons if you need one or you can buy them direct from:
Derby Steel Guitar Inc
465 N Myers Rd
Brooks, KY 40109
Phone: (502) 957-1059 |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 9:22 pm
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Jerry, I checked the spacer and it is mushrooming like a fungus Ive never
seen before. I replaced the nylon and the spacer from a change on my c6th neck and not only
did the nylon not go flying but using the undamaged spacer has made
tuning up much smoother. The old spacer was so dented and "mushroomed"
I cant believe it didn't damage the changer with all the tension I was putting on
it before. Thanks again for the info and the offer of nylons. Since I guess I should
have some back ups for the future I am going get a whole sack of them from Derby tomorrow. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 11 Jan 2012 10:32 pm
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Glad you got 'er straightened out. When you call Derby, Margit Stepp, the owner, is in and out of the shop so be patient if you don't get her right away.
OTOH Bob Callaway might be there and he can help you as well.
I'll be happy to help you also if I can. I did find only a couple of the nylons and 3 or 4 of the metal spacers.
JO. |
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