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Topic: Cigar Box Lap Steel |
Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 7:19 am |
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Well, after reading a thread on the subject last month: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=185646&highlight=cigar, I was so interested that I decided to have a try at building one. I thought it would be a simple enough project and I was looking for an acoustic practice guitar that's louder than an un-amplified electric but quieter than a full size acoustic. Seemed like a good solution if it was strong enough to handle the string tension and sound OK.
I have no knowledge of how to brace a top or how tone woods work so I just took my best guess. I bought a cigar box off ebay and used scrap wood and parts I had laying around and here's what I came up with. It's not loud which is perfect, and the pleasant surprise is that it sounds quite good and plays good too.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Dave Bader
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 7:40 am
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| I love that. How long did it take? Is the neck straight through the box? You did a great job. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 9:22 am
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Thanks, Tom, that's a nice compliment coming from a great builder like you.
Dave, yes the neck goes through but its not solid like it appears. I got the idea to notch the top side of the neck inside the box from looking at pictures of other cigar box guitars, that way the top is free to resonate. I went one step further by also cutting out the middle section to eliminate the standing waves that would occur between the top and the neck. I don't know how important that is but I wanted the soundwaves from the top to travel directly into the box. I was worried about strength so I glued everything together so the box doesn't open. The picture below was taken after I glued the lower part of the box to the neck.
The neck is spruce and the box is cedar with laminated top and bottom. I honestly thought that this thing would be dark sounding but it's got a nice bright tone and a decent bottom. Great sustain!
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 9:35 am
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I forgot the answer your question about time....
It took like three weeks to build this thing but I don't have a lot of free time. I also have limited tools - the only power tool I used was my table saw. I worked on it a half hour at a time after work and a bit on week ends so it would be hard to estimate total time. Pretty easy though and the cool thing about cigar box guitars is that they're not supposed to be fancy.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Dave Bader
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 9:51 am
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| For not have much in the way of tools I'd say thats amazing. Very cool. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 7 Sep 2010 11:26 am
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Damn! That's sweet Mark! Are you going to treat us to a sound sample? Very inspiring! I am building one too... but it's a loooong project!
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If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 7 Sep 2010 11:35 am
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Very cool.
What size board did you buy - 4x4?
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***WARNING: the above commentary is probably Chris' OPINION, and therefore, he thinks he's right. |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Alexa Gomez
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 8 Sep 2010 8:43 pm Very Swank!
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Hello Mark,
Just love the way your cigar box lap steel looks. Very swank, indeed and way better than others I've seen. How's it sound? Do you have any mp3s, perhaps?
Thank you,
Alexa
_________________
Sister Alexa>SX Lap Pro>Rocktron Surf Tremolo>Pignose 7-100.
www.youtube.com/sisteralexa |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2010 3:27 am
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Thanks Alexa, it actually looks better in person  I've been playing this thing a lot and I'm pleased with the sound and I'm still gettng used to the feel. I really was expecting this little guitar to have a muffled tone because of the small pre-made box and the fact that there was no real acoustic science involved... I just married a home made neck to the box and took a swag at where to locate it based on the 22 3/4 scale length. I figured that if the tone was too offensive it would be a good conversation piece... ha!
The fact that it sounds good AND plays good is huge.
Yes, I plan to record a clip with it soon and I'll post it when I do.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 9 Sep 2010 11:00 am
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| Mark Mansueto wrote: |
| Chris, the neck is made from 2 pieces of 1x3 clear spruce glued together. The width is 2 1/2" and the thickness is 1 1/2". I used my table saw to size the width after the the two pieces were glued. After sanding and clear coat you have to look real hard to tell it's pieced together. |
Oh yeah, I didn't see that, but I can see now that you cut the bottom board for the cavity and left the top board against the lid.
And the bridge is glued to the lid? Did you notch the bridge for the strings?
I'm asking all these questions because I'm trying to cobble together my own cigar box lap steel from all the ideas I've seen. Lots of lattitude with these things, which I imagine is very liberating to those who are handy building things, but for someone like me, there are too many options.
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***WARNING: the above commentary is probably Chris' OPINION, and therefore, he thinks he's right. |
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Alexa Gomez
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 9 Sep 2010 12:11 pm
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Thanks for the update, Mark. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like. I've seen some on YouTube where they mount a buzzer piezo for amplification with, apparently, decent results. Wish I had the skills you have to build something so swank.
_________________
Sister Alexa>SX Lap Pro>Rocktron Surf Tremolo>Pignose 7-100.
www.youtube.com/sisteralexa |
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Hans Henrik Rasmussen
From:
Denmark, Copenhagen
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Posted 13 Sep 2010 4:04 pm
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Looks really, really great Mark!
I have been taking the steps (as in getting the cigar box and some tuning pegs) for a project like this several months ago but had sort of lost interest - but now you've made me really want to have a go at it. Thanks for that.
Oh, and like Chris I'll probably have some questions for you when the time comes. I'm sorry but that's what you get for posting a beauty like that (and even claiming that it plays and sounds good too!) .
Thanks,
Hans |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2010 3:11 am
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Thanks, Hans, feel free to ask away. The cool thing about these things is that they're cheap to build so if you make a mistake it's not the end of the world.
Chris, the only place that my lid is glued to the neck is where it enters and exits the box. If you look closely at the 2nd picture you can see that the top of the neck inside the body is notched so that there is a 1/8" gap between the lid and the neck.
Also, I was afraid that this CBLS (Cigar Box Lap Steel... ha, like we need another acrynim) would not support the tension of 6 strings (since most cigar box guitars only have 3 strings), but it seems strong and I have it tuned to E. I started with D but this thing seems to play and sound better in E.
Mark
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Ray Shakeshaft
From:
Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.
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Posted 14 Sep 2010 5:43 am
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Hi Mark,
May I suggest that the volume and tone would have been improved if the bridge had been closer to the middle of the box (obviously this would have necessitated a different scale length). The quality of sound is very much dependent on that amount of face wood that is allowed to vibrate behind the bridge.
Nevertheless it is still a handy practice tool. |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2010 7:11 am
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Ray, I didn't know that but it makes sense. I considered placing the bridge farther forward but I was afraid that the top was to thin to support it and I didn't want to add bracing. I understand now that by placing the bridge closer to the back where there is better support I reduced vibration.
I still like this one the way it is because I wasn't after volume since it works great for parctice, but if I build another I'll use a bigger box and make a few other adjustments.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Hans Henrik Rasmussen
From:
Denmark, Copenhagen
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Posted 14 Sep 2010 12:33 pm
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... but I think the fact that it is relatively small is part of what makes it so cool.
But it's probably quite heavy still, so I was thinking: Did you consider hollowing out the fretboard? If for nothing else (as in no soundwise effect) then just to make it lighter to grab. It looks like you’ve put a thin board on top of the neck anyway(?) so it wouldn’t have been too much work "scooping" some of it out .
Oh, and how did you make the bridge? It's a little hard to see from the pic.
Best,
Hans |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2010 6:34 pm
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Hans, this guitar IS cool and I wouldn't change it, but if I make another it will be different. I can forsee having a bunch of these in the future.
I did consider using a 1" bit and drilling holes in the fretboard but I'm glad I didn't. Why? because even though the spruce I used is dense(for spruce) it's still light and the guitar has excellent sustain. I think drilling it would have robbed some sustain.
Here are a couple pictures that show the bridge and nut which are both made from maple with fretwire on the top.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Hans Henrik Rasmussen
From:
Denmark, Copenhagen
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Posted 15 Sep 2010 2:43 pm
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Great pics and explanation, Mark. May I also ask how you made the "fret lines" so that they correspond with the 22-3/4 scale?
Also, you write that you just "took a swag" at locating the box - but how would you do it the next time?
Thanks again,
Hans |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2010 5:44 pm
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Ha! figuring the fret scale was the easy part... I cut the fretboard from a scrap piece of oak and laid it next to one of my lap steel necks and used a square to transfer the lines 
As far as locating the box... I think I'd experiment with moving the bridge farther forward (which would actually mean moving the box rearward). The bad thing is that with a thin top it will not support the string tension without bracing the top. I can tell because I can detect a dip where my bridge rests on the top and it's only about 1/2" from where the top meets the neck inside.
I think it would depend on how much volume you want. My guess is that my guitar would be louder with a larger box and probably louder yet with the bridge located more toward the center of the lid. I wonder how much vibration is lost due to braces? I'd love to pick the brain of a builder who knows this stuff.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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David Venzke
From:
SE Michigan, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2010 6:14 pm
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| Quote: |
| I'd love to pick the brain of a builder who knows this stuff. |
Mark,
You might want to check out the Musical Instrument Maker's Forum:
www.mimf.com
Not sure if many of the builders there have made CBGs, but there's definitely plenty of experience on instrument making (including bracing) ...
-Dave |
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Hans Henrik Rasmussen
From:
Denmark, Copenhagen
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 4:13 pm
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| Mark Mansueto wrote: |
| Ha! figuring the fret scale was the easy part... I cut the fretboard from a scrap piece of oak and laid it next to one of my lap steel necks and used a square to transfer the lines |
Ok, I don't have any 22-3/4 scale to tranfers from but I'll work something out. And actually, I also wondered how you made the frets as in how did you cut them/color them or what ever it is that you've done to them
Thanks,
Hans |
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David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2012 7:49 am Nice!
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| Nice, I want one. Are cigar boxes pretty easy to come by. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 6 Jan 2012 9:59 am
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| Mark Mansueto wrote: |
| ...I was worried about strength so I glued everything together so the box doesn't open... |
So how do you get your cigars in and out ?    |
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