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Topic: Reece's Bb6th tuning vs Standard U12? |
Joseph Carlson
From:
Grass Valley, California, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 10:31 am |
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I'm trying to wrap my brain around the similarities and differences between these two tunings. What are the relative advantages of each? How are they the same, where do they diverge?
Thanks!
Joe |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 1:52 pm
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Reece's Bb6 is tuned (low to high):
C Eb G Bb D F G Bb D F G C
Pedals 1 and 2 are basically A B pedals
Pedal 3 lowers 10 1 step, 9 1/2 step, 8 1 step, 5 1/2 step
4, 5 and 6 are standard 6th pedals
Pedal 7 raises 10 and 6 1/2 step
Pedal 8 lowers 12 1/2 step, 11 1/2 step, raises 9 1/2 step
LKL lowers 5 1/2 step
LKV lowers 2, 6 and 10 1/2 step
LKR lowers 7 1/2 or a 1 step
RKL raises 4 and 8 1/2 step and raises 1 1 step
RKR lowers 4 1 step
Basically, the Bb6 is set up like a 6th tuning that, with RKL, is an Ebma9 tuning, although I don't really think of it like that, myself.
As a jazz player, in my opinion, best tuning ever, but I confess to being a Reece devotee, plus a C6 player will notice stuff they would prefer to be different. Ah, well, works for me, anyway.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 2:00 pm
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I should also say that I tried the E9/B6 tuning for a while. I found it cumbersome for my purposes, but I think it's a killer tuning, especially if you play a lot of country type music.
The Bb6 is a great country tuning, as well, at least in Reece and David Wright's hands!
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Joseph Carlson
From:
Grass Valley, California, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 3:24 pm
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Thanks for in the info Christopher.
I guess I'm trying to understand the logic behind Reece's tuning. For example on C6 each pedal serves a purpose (mainly to achieve what was done with a slant on a regular lap steel, as well as to give you the basic swing changes.)
Is there some sort of underlying logic to each of the changes on the Bb6 tuning? |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 4:35 pm
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It's the same logic - creating chord voicings not available without the pedals, plus the multiple levels of pitch movement within a given area on the neck. As to why these particular changes, too big a subject for me to cover, and my knowledge is pretty surface compared to Reece's. I study the tuning a lot, and have some insights, but it might take a lifetime to explore properly. I plan to, of course...
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 24 Dec 2011 4:44 pm
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It certainly looks pretty cool. I'd be tempted to give it a go if I had a 12 lying about.
I might get the chance, too. A friend who comes from a family of steel players says he has a S-12 Emmons, 10 & 5 in his uncle's garage. I see little reason to doubt that, but I have trouble swallowing the alleged provenance: he claims that it used to belong to Reese. I've no problem believing Reese owned an Emmons, but the pedal count seems off; didn't he usually stick to 6-8?
I'd happily bring it back to life, with all my prodigious free time  
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 6:15 am
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Jr Knight can play the Bb6 country as cornbread and swing/jazz too. What a player and nice guy too.
Tony |
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George Macdonald
From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 7:42 am Universal
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| I've played B6th/E9th since 1974. My RR knee lever raises my E flats to E putting the guitar in E9th. Maurice Anderson set up my 74 MSA. Playing a Carter now. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 8:30 am
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Just before I went to Bb6, I did the same thing - B6/E9. I liked it better than the other way
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 9:07 am B6/e9
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Great thread, from my POV as a uni 12 player just starting to really explore the chordal possibilities of those "other" four pedals. I'm playing basic Newman E9/B6 at present.
George and Christopher, did you tune the second string to C# and raise it to D# on the same lever that raises 4 & 8 ? I'm thinking of adding an 8th pedal and maybe a 6th KL to my Carter, so I'd be very interested to see your full copedent, George, and hear anyone's thoughts on what would be the best changes to add to facilitate altered dominants, as well as slash chords.
Happy Christmas, all!
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 10:33 pm
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Here's Reece's Bb6 a half-step up, for E9/B6 thinkers:
PS, bOb's Copedent link shows string 1 as D, but Christopher says it's a C. Confirm this, someone. Meanwhile, here it is with the C, string 1.
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Joseph Carlson
From:
Grass Valley, California, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 8:23 am
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Hi Dean,
Thanks so much for creating that! It makes a lot more sense to me kicked up a half-step. I guess these two tunings have quite a bit in common after all.
Does anyone have any insight into pedal three? |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 8:54 am
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Pedal 3 will give a 5 chord at the 1 position. Slide it back two frets for a 4.
hope this makes sense.
Last edited by Ron Randall on 27 Dec 2011 10:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 8:57 am
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Joseph
Reese told me that pedal 3 replaces the A/F position as the next inversion up from "open" position. I think it would be 2 frets up from the B-chord? The next position up would be with the D# raise to E.
I hope Reese jumps in to correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, he seems able to pull any chord and inversion on this tuning. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 9:09 am
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I guess we think of standard 4,5, and 6 differently!
In Reece's Bb6
Pedal 4 raises 6 and 10 1 step
Pedal 5 lowers 3 and 7 1/2 step, raises 11 1/2 step
Pedal 6 lowers 12 1 step, lowers 8 1/2 step, raises 4 1/2 step
There's also a compensator on pedal 2 which raises 7 1/4 step.
You have Pedal 7,8 and RKR wrong - the chart on the forum is an old one, if that's where you got your info from. The Bb6 tuning I've written out above is current, and correct as of February of last year, and I believe as of now, but Reece will have to confirm it.
And yes, string one is C.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 9:15 am
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Dean P....thank you my friend for transposing and displaying my setup. In response to your question.... I tune both my 1st and last strings to a "C".
Joseph C....Thank you for your question. Pedal three shapes a 1 major chord when your bar is at the 4 chord position. When adding the 11th string it places the b7 in the bass relative to 1. It also combines with my LKR and my RKR. This pedal when understood and placed within the flow chart, can easily become one which is used very frequently.
Lane G....The Emmons is a great guitar, but I can truthfully say I've never owned one personally. In times past MSA has acquired Emmons guitars, and possibly your friend bought it from me through MSA.
Christopher W....I appreciate your displaying my latest setup, and Teresa and I look forward to your visit in a couple weeks. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 9:25 am
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Yes, pedal 3 is a V chord at I, even cooler, it's an inversion with the seventh in the bass, on string 11. At the flat five it's a lovely altered chord with the third in the bass
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 9:38 am
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Christopher
{edit: updated copedent per Reeses "next" post in this thread. plus, allowing clearance for b0b's watermark.}
Here is the current setup as you have described... please check for errors.
Changed are P4, P6, RKL, and RKR. P6 was correct, tell me if it's wrong.
Hi Reece, check this out and see if this is your current. Looking forward to seeing you again.
-dean-
Last edited by Dean Parks on 26 Dec 2011 3:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 9:54 am
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Thanks for confirming, Reece! We must have been typing at the same time. I'm looking forward to seeing you and Teresa, and getting some more insight into this incredible instrument.
To me, the copedent alone doesn't really show the depth of this tuning. I'll try to post some of the charts I've made that show the whole neck for each pedal, as well as combinations of pedals.
Pedal 7, which raises 6 and 10 1/2 step, in combination with pedal 6, which lowers 12 1 step, lowers 8 1/2 step and raises 4 1/2 step, creates an extraordinary m11 at the I, as well as an altered dominant at the b vii in cunjuction with LKR 1/2.
A terrific tuning!
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 10:56 am
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Dean P....Thank you for your revised setup. I see a couple things which are different than what I currently use.
I'm not raising my first string with the RKL because I'm tuning it open to the same note it was pulling to. Also my 7th string compensator is on my A pedal, not my B pedal. (lowers 1/4 tone)
For those who may not have used a compensator who play an E9th tuning, you might try picking your 5th string with the A or A & B pedals down, then hitting the 7th string, and you will find it to be very sharp.
Lowering that string by 1/4 tone will pull the 7th string in tune which allows the 7th string to be used more often while also creating another playing pocket. That small movement should not effect the pedal action or feel. (The A and B pedals on my 6th tuning are the same as A & B on an Eth tuning when my RKL is engaged) |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 10:58 am
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Dean
Looks good!
What a great and helpful tool for someone comparing to two tunings! Thank you for taking the time to do that - very cool
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 11:22 am
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My RKL does raise the 1st string to a D, Reece may have changed it on his... And, yes, the compensator on my guitar is for the A pedal - oops.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 1:50 pm
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So what does P8 do to string 12? B0b's watermark kinda steps on it. I think down a minor third?
As soon as I finish getting the MSA D-10 the way I want it, I hope Brad lets me tackle that 12.
Just not sure what I'd want the the other two pedals to do. If it happens, I'll be back for suggestions.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 2:47 pm
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Pedal 8 just lowers 1/2 step. The big drop that most pedal 8's have is problematic, since the string is a whole step higher, which would mean a drop of a fourth... It would probably sound like a rubber band! I don't feel any need for that low root, myself
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 3:28 pm
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Lane G....The 8th pedal lowers the 12th string 1/2 tone and along with the other pulls, provides a 3rd interval of a 1 chord in the bass at the b3 position when playing strings 4, 6, 7 and 12.
Sorry, but since no one named Bob has posted on this thread, I don't know what you mean by "Bob's watermark kinda steps on it". |
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