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Topic: Carvin nut/tail piece questions |
John Broughten
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2011 6:02 am |
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I just bought a 1976 Carvin Pro-D6. I'd say it was bought back then and played once or twice and put away until I bought it. It looked brand new and I bought it right away without doing much research about it. Since then, I began to research it some and found out on this forum that the nut and tail piece are plastic. However, the Carvin Museum web site describes the nut/tail piece on this model as "cast hardened metal" To me it sure feels and looks like plastic. Does anyone know for sure? No one at Carvin had an answer to this. Could the Carvin Museum site description be wrong? If anyone is familiar with Carvins, please let me know
Also, if it is plastic what turnings would place the least amount of stress on the nut/tail piece to avoid breakage? I have read a few post about breakages but the poster does not state how a replacement or repair was done. I'm new to this but had planned on a C6 and maybe a G tuning since I've been playing Dobro for a few years. I just don't want to risk breaking either piece since replacement parts would be hard to find. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 1 Dec 2011 8:33 am
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Photos would help determine whether you have plastic or metal parts, but since you own the guitar, you're probably right. I doubt that either C6 or G tuning will affect the plastic.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2011 9:07 am
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| John, I've had both versions, a cast dbl. 6 and a plastic dbl. 8, and the last thing I would have worried about was string pressure damaging the plastic. At least on mine the plastic was quite substantial, shaped just like the castings, hefty. The castings were on the earlier models, and sounded better to me, but the plastic was a great steel too. I shouldn't have let it go, and you'll get high mileage out of this fine steel. |
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 10:51 pm
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John, I have a mid 60s Carvin S-8. I forget the standard names, but the pieces by the tuning head & behind the pick up on mine are some kind of cast metal. In my research I found Carvin also used plastic on these parts at different times. I experimented by having a new piece of air craft aluminum to my design constructed & installed on the piece next to the pick up. I wanted to see what it would do to the tone. Also that original piece was pulled up from the body of the guitar by way of the pressure from the string tension. I didn't like that so with my design change I had holes drilled through the body to anchor the strings on the bottom of the guitar. I also had a little metal washer added in each hole to keep the string from wearing into the original wood body. I didn't care for the new piece I had put on so I re-installed the original piece. Through the body string anchoring solved the problem of the 'bridge' being pulled up from the body. I'm now more pleased & comfortable knowing the guitar is close to original & the weak design problem was solved. I was really concerned the bridge might pull loose sometime. Problem solved.
Don |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2011 1:09 am
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| So, how did the changes affect the tone? |
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2011 8:52 am
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I could hardly tell any difference in tone, but maybe it became a bit warmer, or fuller. Could be my imagination. I find the greatest impact on its tone is by way of settings on my Peavey 130 amp or my NV 400. It has a pretty good sound to my ears. Senior citizen audiences seem to like it also.
I also have an older Carvin that is not really a Carvin but a Kiesel D-8 Bakelite. The original Keisels were built by Lowell Keisel before the company was named Carvin for his sons. The bakelite has a nicer, fuller, warmer tone & the strings are anchored through the body from the factory. That was an influence for me to do that on the Carvin S-8. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2011 1:35 pm
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| I had a Kiesel S8 that the ebay seller called Bakelite, but it was a softer type of 'plastic', not a hard/brittle example like Rickenbachers, or old bowling balls. Decent little guitar which I should have kept, but a disappointing buy considering my expectations. Does this sound similar to your D8? |
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2011 7:42 pm
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The Carvin S-8 tone seems more harsh & bright than the much older "Bakelite" Kiesel. The tone control on the Carvin seems quite different than the Kiesel. Hard for me to describe but the Carvin tone control seems to have a pretty sharp/significant change at a point whereas the Kiesel seems smoother all through the range. Also I suspect the thickness of the bodies & the materials make quite a difference. The wood bodied Carvin is about 1.25" & the "Bakelite" Kiesel is about 1.5." I suspect that is another reason I consider the Kiesel to have a warmer, richer, & more resonant tone.
In my communication with Bobbe Seymour, he related one of is first steels was a Kiesel D-8 exactly like mine. He commented that his had a very good tone.
Also effecting the tones & more difficult to make a good comparison the Carvin has thinner string gauges on the low end than the Kiesel, as the Carvin tuning is a lot tighter in tones being tuned to the Leavitt tuning on the bottom six strings.
Hope that helps. I don't think I can do better with descriptions of tones & differences. All in all, to me, there is such a difference in the instruments its almost like comparing apples & oranges to my limited ability to describe & compare. In tone considerations I really would prefer to have a Kiesel S-8 comparable to my D-8, than the Carvin.
Don |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2011 9:49 pm
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| Cool, Don. I'm a big fan of Mr. Kiesel's stuff and my Carvin D6 is awesome. The Kiesel's used to frequent Waikiki's Halekulani/House W/Out A Key for the steel music. Nice folk, I wish I'd gotten his autograph, he was a real pioneer in West coast music but has never gotten his true due. All his instruments were good, and some were great, plus fine sounding his pickups adorned many a guitar back in the day. |
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