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Topic: Pick chatter, string zip and string buzz? |
Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 7:19 am |
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I thought i would post this and get feed back especially from the top players on how to and or prevent these sounds from being noticed as you listen to recorded and live steel players.
Since i was in my early teens my ear seems to always hear this while i was learning to play. To the point i would play licks and leads for many hours a day until i didn't hear the pick actually touch the string and have the string buzz or chatter go away.
I still work on this because it drives me crazy when it pops up every now and then.
I hear it in a lot of players today.
So here ya go pros! What do you guys focus on to rid yourself as a player of these sloppy sounds i would say???
I find my right hand missing the block and my left hand getting loose with the bar and or not letting the note breath before moving the bar which ya might say the timing is off a little are my causes!
thx....km
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www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 7:37 am
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| Quote: |
| ....i would play licks and leads for many hours a day until i didn't hear the pick actually touch the string and have the string buzz or chatter go away. |
I'm no top player but that seems to be the answer. Hours a day of focused practice over the coarse of many years. Same as bowing for violin players and embouchure practice for clarinet.
As far as I can tell there is some volume pedal things you can do but they only work when you already have control of the picks and strings. Using the volume pedal to duck bad technique works about as well as using vibrato to hide bad intonation.
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Bob |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 8:08 am
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Spot-on, Bob.
BTW, the word 'coarse' would be spelled 'course' in the context in which you are using it. Normally, I wouldn't say anything for fear of being accused of nitpicking, but I found it odd that you would miss that, but spell 'embouchure' correctly.  |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 12:55 pm
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Pick chatter, string zip and string buzz?
Kenny, remember this if you don't remember any anything else I've told you.
Blame it on the guitar,picks and or bar. Never admit it's you. This will keep you working forever. 
bb  |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 3:57 pm From my corner of the room......................
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I'd say that a mechanical, tentative or fearful approach to plucking the strings or attempting to manipulate the bar.....could well be a root cause to the noises you describe.
I'd say a more aggresive and commanding picking of the strings is needed. A confident.......approach.
A loosely held bar, allowed to wander atop the strings without sufficient downward pressure, would be my first area of concern when it comes to bar chatter.
Another possibility could be a deeper groove cut/worn into the NUT on an older instrument that is lower than all of the rest and thus allowed to vibrate vertically striking the bottom side of the bar without restriction. Another possibility I see, is trying to play "A CHEAP" guitar where the manufacture is NOT accurate and thus creates musical problems.
I'll go back and sit in the corner now. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 7:22 pm
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Zip and chatter are just insufficient bar pressure. I'll use zip as an intentional fill, at times, just running the bar from wherever it was all the way past the pickups
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 8 Dec 2011 10:07 pm
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I use a heavier 12 string bar. Its less strain on my left hand. I occasionally use my left thumb to block notes. I know, not good form, but it gits 'er done.  Primarily though, the sound of the strings is started with right hand picks and then stopped by the right hand picks or right palm. There is no short cut for practicing pick blocking unfortunately. Start slow and build up speed and stamina. I have a very long way to go as a beginner, but it does get easier and faster, and most importantly, cleaner the more you do it.
Clete |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 9 Dec 2011 5:14 am
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Kenny, What type steel guitar do you play?
Zane
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2011 6:00 am
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Hey Zane!
Emmons D10 8X7 2010 Model! Best i ever owned!
I guess what i wanted to say is for me, my fix that i use is as i said, bar monement and right hand technic focus. I was wondering what other players and or pros do also to prevent this. I've been playin around 40 years and i'm 52 and every now and then i record myself live to listen for this sloppy sound. It happens a little these days for me but i really hear alot of it on youtube and some live instrumentals and is it seems the players don't try to improve it.
To table it and hear what the players like Tommy White, Paul Franklin, Buck Reid and so on say is a fix would be good to know. I'm just wondering if my fix can be improved as i'm sure it can.
I'm working to the next level as a player very hard and for the past 4 years i'm spending an average of 20 hours a week between gigs and the day job to get there. This sloppy sound is critical to overcome for me as a player and i have, but it's very sneaky at creeping back in as you get lazy as a player. Ok just me and i'm in no way directing this at any one player. thx...km
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www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2011 6:56 am
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For the past three years I have been haunted with right hand problems. It started with a Ganglion Cist that had to be removed and that caused Corpal Tunnel that required surgery. I have seen and heard the loss of control. Not only is speed greatly reduced there is string buzzing to contend with plus the change in tone. My doctor promised me it would get better but the operation was in August and no gain as yet. I bought a
Tens 3000 to help with the therapy maybe that will help. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 9 Dec 2011 10:37 am
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Kenny, please, allow me share some tidbits Buddy Charleton tried to teach me. Let me say first, I am guilty as charged as I preach what I don't always necessarily practice. Having said that, there goes. Oh, you requested comments from pros, that I aint...SOO, check out this vid of YOU as I run my mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8RborWrRqc
Look at your left arm, its resting on your back neck. That is a no no via BC. That dude use to grab my right arm and pick it up. If he saw indentation marks from those C6th strings, underneath my arm, I would receive a good scolding. Dirty looks would follow too. Next, look where your big rear end is planted, its too far to the left. Move your seat and your body to the right so your elbow is parallel with your guitar right end plate. Next, elevate your right arm slightly so its not touching that back neck and tuck your elbow in so it touches your right side. Now here is the hard part, at least for me. The less lateral movement with your right hand will contribute with what you are looking for. ISNT THAT SOMETHING...no chargie...
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Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 6:25 am
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Well Mr. Lee I have taken a look at the vids of me playin to see the posture you propose! Now I will say you are a pro to me!
I'm not sure I agree with the right arm position you describe Mr. Chalker told you to have but last night at the gig I tried this process to see if it made a difference.
As you would think it felt a little strange. I didn't seem to play any different.
Let me say this, what I have done to prevent these issues for me works but I'm always listening for a better and more exact method for say.
Looking at the Pro's on vids I see many different arm positions and left hand bar posture. However I would still like to see if there is a mutual way the good players approach this to prevent the sloppy sounds I describe in the first post!
Thx my redneck Yankee!..........k
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www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 7:25 am
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| I have found that when I'm playing I tend to have the same problem with pick noise & bar buzz,so I stay out of the bars but for the pick noise I find if I turn the "Presence" back on my amp. it's not as pronounced.I also have been working on vol. ped. coordination between striking the strings & dampening the volume as I strike the strings.Seems to werk fer me,but I'm not a pro. not a con. either. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 7:53 am
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I don't know if there is actually a "right" or "wrong" about this issue. Far be it from me to disagree with the likes of BC, but after observing vids of the greats on Youtube, etc., seems like each has his own way of positioning themselves which works for them ….  |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 8:05 am
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| Quote: |
| tried this process to see if it made a difference. |
Two gold stars awarded...
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| at the gig I tried this process to see if it made a difference. |
forfeited 1/2 gold star....removed...
| Quote: |
| As you would think it felt a little strange |
as it should....
| Quote: |
| didn't seem to play any different. |
another 1/2 gold star gone....
What? Expecting an overnight miracle?
| Quote: |
| you describe Mr. Chalker told you |
Charleton, not Chalker
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Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 8:23 am
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Kenny, Really nice playing !
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Bob |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2011 10:46 am
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Well Mr. Lee I stand corrected on Mr. Charleton. I was speeding as usual!
I Agree with the over night success! Working with it today! Trust me I will work with ideas especially if they improve and or increase my ability to be as clean and clear as possible!
Moving the arm in does seem to make it a little easier to speed which I like ya know!
And the experiment continues........................................................
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www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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