When to start learning C6 neck? - beginner

Mikko Paavola · From: Sweden

This is my first post, so hello everybody and greetings from Sweden!

For about 2 weeks ago I bought my very first Pedal Steel Guitar, MSA D10 SS. I'm busy learning chords, licks and educating my right hand...

I'd like to hear opinions from more experienced players on when to start with the C6 neck? I really like some of the old Western Swing and also found Joel Paterson on YouTube and totally love his style of playing. I have a jazz background (guitar) so the theory is not an issue.
So, should I first learn the E9 and then proceed to C6 or learn them simultaneously? How did you do it?

Regards,
Mikko

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I would learn them BOTH at the same time. I would use the Buddy Emmons C6 instruction book, but only because I know it.
On second thought, all the C6 instruction I've seen presupposes a familiarity with the basics like coordinating picking with feet/knees, coordination of bar movement with picking, or all three. I've not seen any stone beginner-level C6 stuff.
Let the back neck wait three weeks. As soon as you don't feel lost under/behind your machine, attack them both.

Don't overlook Bobbe's YouTube stuff on C6. I don't think Mickey has any on the back neck.

As for how I did it, I got Dobro and steel lessons from the same guy, and my first steel was a single 10, but he showed me that I had the first 7 strings of C6 by hitting D lever: I specifically asked him to teach me some tunes that he did in his western swing band on the back neck. By already knowing "corner slants" I had pedals 5&6, or the effects thereof. When I got my D-10, that stuff got easier. But I still THINK differently on each neck; I'll switch necks between phrases of a solo if the other neck feels better suited to my ideas.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I started learning the C6th neck about 1 or 2 years after starting E9th. At that pont I felt somewhat comfortable w/ E9th, which helped me understand the back neck easier.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

There is no rule that says one has to learn E9 before C6. You could start with C6. In fact, you might not ever want to learn E9. It all depends on what sounds attract your ear.

By the way, if you're interested in jazz, be sure to check out www.steelguitarjazz.com

Enjoy!

Jim
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

Welcome, Mikko!

Call me crazy but isn't that a Finnish name?

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

I'd say first find the scales and the chords on C6th, just like you would on E9th or guitar or piano, and go from there.
_________________
C#
Me: Steel Guitar Madness
Latest ebook: Steel Guitar Insanity
Custom Made Covers for Steel Guitars & Amps at Sharp Covers Nashville

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

I don't have a C6 neck, but perhaps ignore the pedals at first and explore the material for nonpedal 6th tunings. There is a lot of music in just that.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

One thing for sure is to always keep your back neck set up and tuned with relatively fresh strings! It's gonna be a bit of a new thing, especially if you're already familiar with regular 6 string guitar (which at first will seem a lot more relative to E9 )

I myself started on E9, but quickly took on the C6. I learned alot by trying to re-create everything I learned on E9 as much as possible on C6, and visa versa. One thing about C6 is that in my opinion it's much easier to play root based chords on jazz and pop type tunes with more involved chord progressions than on E9...but it's a really good tool to learn 3 chord tunes on C6 too.

You'll find that there's alot of E9 learning material that deals with how to transition between basic chord progressions found in country music...like going from a I-IV and a V-I etc....which is great usable stuff, but it's really good to learn how melodies relate to chord progressions with more varied chord types like Major 7s, minor 7s, alt 7s, diminshed, augmented, etc etc.....that's where C6 shines!!!Not that you can't also play all of those on E9, but there's a lot more "partial" voicings there than on C6, sometimes making seeing the big picture a little more abstract and hard to visualize if you ever want to play different styles of music other than country.

I've found that learning each tuning helps the other and often keeps you from "hitting the wall" and getting stagnant.

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i side with Rich on this - it is my approach - i'm still learning so..

i think one should learn to play C6 without the pedals first - as a non-pedal mentality which is different - get use to moving around ON TOP of the neck, not underneath as on E9. learn everything you can, get some non-pedal instruction material and really work the BASIC C6 tuning (strings 2-7). then start adding pedals one at a time to see what they open up. there is A LOT of stuff in that tuning (with & without pedals) - it will really reveal itself over time.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Dear Mikko,

I have been playing and writing C6th courses for many years and I have several C6th courses available. My HWP-200 is my most basic C6th course and contains quite a bit of material. I start with chords, scales and then chord progressions, runs & licks, endings, intros and also 5 songs all in one book with a CD. The CD has a rhythm track for the songs and intros and was recorded with real musicians. You can check out my web site at:www.herbywallace.com for this and some of my other courses. For what it's worth, I learned C6th years ago before E9th as a lot of the players did back then.

Herby Wallace

Christopher Woitach · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Herbie's books are great, and include information not found in many others - you will not only learn to play, but you'll actually have a clue when you've gone through them.

I spent about a minute learning E9, and quickly realized how much better suited the 6th tuning was for my purposes.

I also must disagree - learn the pedals right away, it's part of the instrument.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I second Christopher's thinking.
The lap steel has a different mindset and approach.
I'd learn the C6 pedal steel because you CHOSE the pedal over its antecedent.
After you got a grasp on the pedal steel, I'd go learn the biscuit board (the lap steel), because there are some cool things to learn there. Some very cool things.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Here's a 3 small tips (without using pedal) that gives a little insight into the brilliance of the basic tuning. ( Thank Jerry Byrd!)

Strings 9-8-7 = F Major triad
Strings 8-7-6 = A minor triad
Strings 7-6-5 = C Major triad

Without pedals, the A minor & C Major also have all the inversions.

This is only the beginning! Smile

Christopher Woitach · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I love the 6th tuning - I play Bb6 S-12, tuned (from low to high) C Eb G Bb D F G Bb D F G C. Extremely logical even without the pedals. With the pedals - amazing!
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com

Rob Segal · From: New York NY

Christopher, what is your setup? I'm always interested in what changes jazz players feel are best--Rob

Mikko Paavola · From: Sweden

Wow! So many helpful tips! Thank You for taking the time to reply. I think I'll start with the C6 right away then.

@Frank Freniere
Thank You, it's great to be here. Mikko is indeed a finnish name, I moved to Sweden 10 years ago.

@Jim Cohen
Already been at steelguitarjazz.com Very Happy

What a great site!

Thomas Green · From: Michigan, USA

Does anyone know if Herby's material is still available?

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

From time to time forum members offer their used courses. I reached out and tried to contact his family but was unsuccessful. Herby Wallace was a great player and teacher.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I started out on A6th without knowing what it was while in Europe in the 80's.
No books, no videos and sure enough, no youtube.
And I started by playing in a Rock'a'Billy/Hillbilly band.

I remember sitting at a D10 PSG for the first time and wondering why the pedals weren't doing what I had come up wishing for.

IF I'd go back in time, I'd do what historically happened:

1- play STEEL guitar (C6th would be a smart start)... learn to STEEL before trying to "milking" music outta desperately pumping pedals.
2- Get Jeff Newmans C6th videos (they are still around on DVD conversions. It may seem "dated" music, but the courses went from bottom up all the way to playing "steel guitar Jazz".
3- Once you master that, you go onto E9th, just like most our heroes (yes, even Lloyd played a D10 in early years) and you will cut thru that like "1,2,3".

4-That's when you sign up with Paul Franklin's online "school".

IF you want to go into Jazz for real, learn Jazz Rhythm guitar, so you learn to "see" chords and chord patterns (movements). For me, Jazz Rhythm guitar has been the biggest "aha!"-moment. It's changed completely how I go about playing PSG.

I know, this differs a LOT to what many will suggest. But it's my honest opinion

... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________

Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic