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Topic: Copedents for Jules Ah See, Barney Isaacs, Billy Hew Len? |
Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 10:56 am |
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I thought I'd retitle my post for my on-going investigative/research/probe into how the ethnic Hawaiian steel players set-up their pedal guitars. I can't figure-out if people are just misunderstanding what I'm trying to do or just refuse to believe that the ethnic Hawaiians were into pedals. The few comments I've received so far are directing me to what I already know--basically the E9/C6 pedal set-up that I've been using for years, also, I detect some hostility about my effort. There is definitive proof that the great Hawaiian players(at least the 3 mentioned above) were using pedals. Also, I already know & can hear a FEW of the standard C6 pedal changes in my Hawaiian music library. But, I just have a feeling that the 3 players mentioned didn't precisely copy the E9 or C6 pedal set-ups, mainly created in Nashville, to use for their Hawaiian music playing in Hawaii. I'm thinking that they surely borrowed some ideas from the mostly C6 set-up, but in the end--THEY--THE ETHNIC HAWAIIANS--CAME-UP WITH THEIR OWN HAWAIIAN COPEDENT. So, this is what I'm trying to accomplish, come-up with the the copedent that the ethnic Hawaiians devised.
Last edited by Butch Pytko on 16 Nov 2011 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 5:54 pm
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Brad, I'm very aware of ALL that info you're referring to. The Billy Hew Len post was the one that got me interested in how he set his guitar-up in the first place. If you read all that info you're talking about, it only skirts around the pedal issue, & does not give ANY PEDAL COPEDENT CHARTS, per se. I know of the non pedal tunings--I have been using them for years. One of my preliminary copedent charts is to just use the pedals to get all those tunings, BUT, I'm not sure that is what the Hawaiians were doing. If the Billy Hew Len post & all the tunings I've learned about through the years is all I can gather, then I'll just have to use what I've got so far.
About the 8 string pedal steels--I've also known for years that the Hawaiians used the Fender pedal steels, as far back as the 50's. That in itself is not a big concern for me. I'll just leave 2 strings off each neck of my D-10 I'll be using for this project. I have thought of adding 2 additional strings to the Hawaiian tunings to make them 10 string tunings, but to start, I just want to figure-out the 8 string copedents for now.
Just to add--Barney Isaacs himself told me back in the 60's when I met him in Hawaii, that he used the Fender 1000 on the album "Evening in the Islands". So, at that time, I did realize that it was a D-8 pedal steel. But, at that time, I was thinking just non pedal guitar & wasn't concerned about his pedal set-up. What added to that was the fact that Barney was so indifferent about pedals compared to non pedal. He really didn't say that pedals was the way to go, more so than non pedal playing. A big point is that there are youtube videos of him still playing non pedal guitars in the 80's & later. I could of easily asked what his pedal set-up was back then, but didn't, & beleive me I've been kicking myself over that oversight for years! |
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Duane Becker
From:
Elk,Wa 99009 USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 7:49 am
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| So is there a copedent for Isaacs and Ah See out there anywhere? Especially one used on the Isaacs/Evening in the Islands lp? |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 9:33 am
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Probably not.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 10:21 am
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| Duane, that's the very reason for this topic. I'm halfway laughing to myself thinking, maybe I should of titled the topic--THE LOST COPEDENTS OF THE GREAT HAWAIIAN PEDAL PLAYERS! When you think about it, you would think that the copedents would be readily available, just as the copedents for E9/C6 are. We see here on the forum OFTEN--when someone asks--"Anyone have the copedent for so-n-so?" Usually in a flash, someone will post it. But, I guess in the very small world of Hawaiian pedal steel, it's becoming more & more sort of a mystery/secret. To think I could of unlocked this mystery/secret, back when I met Barney Isaacs--all I had to do was ask & he would of graciously provided the copedent to me. But, at that time it was my young unknowing nature of not thinking it was important. Just maybe though, if I met & talked to Barney Isaacs, surely someone else did too & did get the copedent info. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 11:07 am
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| Mike, what a great idea! Thanks for responding! |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 1:57 pm
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I believe Basil Henriques has this information.  |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2011 6:23 pm
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| I've already contacted Basil about this. His brief message wasn't too clear whether he had any info or not. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 7 Jun 2015 3:57 pm
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Hi, I know its an old topic but we should find the answers!!
Im a huge fan of the Tapa Rooms tapes and I think Jules Ah See play is C13 non pedal on it but I would like to hear him playing is Fender 400, these pedal steel sound very nice and to me they have the "soul" the first straight steel had but with some cool option pedals can give.
Fender 8 strings pedal steel is to me a gold age for steel and is sadly gone because of the evolution of steel. Now you either old school straight steel or modern pedal steel but the 8 strings cables steel players are very rare!
So anybody have recording and or copedent of this period? |
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