A new pedal steel in your future?

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Mike's topic (here) missed the point I was trying to make, that the market for new (not used) 12 string pedal steels is very small.

So here's a poll.

You don't have to be a 12-string player to participate, by the way.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I would like to have a relatively inexpensive, semi-portable "fly guitar" with my U-12 setup, or at least my tuning with the E9 pedals.

I saw Jim Eaton's Carpsteel (now called the legend) and think it would be perfect for this purpose if it had 12 strings.

Am I the only 12 string player who feels this way?
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Seems that way Mike. I do think someone should offer a guitar in that class in a 12 string. While I will probably never buy an S-12 (a D-12 is another story), there is definitely a market for them. How much remains to be seen.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Though I don't gig anymore, if I did I would definitely buy a U12 fly guitar. Mechanical performance and tonal quality would, of course, be major factors in the decision...but for road gigs and fly dates it would be ideal.
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Best regards,
Mike

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

I would like to try a 12 string for a few weeks to see if I like it and could get used to it.
If I did I would likely buy one.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

As one who'll switch from one neck to the other mid-solo, I'd certainly consider it, but it'd have to fairly loaded down.
I still regard an MSA U-12 as "the one that got away" while I was buying that '80 push-pull D-10.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

It seems that a lighter weight U12 could be made, but I also wonder how light it would be. Yes lighter than what's out there now, but because there is more hardware on the U12 there would be still be more weight. My old Sierra Crown weighed a ton, somewhere around 75 pounds in the case. I realize that newer U12's are better than that. How much does your U12 weigh Mike? How light would one have to be for it to be considered a "fly guitar"?
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

While they've gotten lighter, the "standard complement" of changes has grown. I can live without the "Franklin Drop" but that 1&2 raise, I'd wanna keep. I like raising the 6th string of the C6, I just discovered that change. I suspect that, assuming with a lock on the D lever, I'd want to keep P5 on an LKR. You hang the extra iron of the recent additions to the arsenal, I think cabinet size is the only weight savings.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Fred, mine weighs 56 pounds in the case, but the case itself weighs much of that. I never weighed the guitar by itself.

This question arose when I said I wished Bud Carter's new ETS would make a 12 string, and b0b pointed out there might be enough intere4st to justify the expense of the necessary re-tooling.

It occurred to me that some company that already makes S-10s, as well as D-10s and S-12s might come out with lightweight fly versions of all their guitars.

BTW What I want is a light reasonably portable "beater" guitar that I could take to rehearsals, parties, etc
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Excel U12's that I've seen are fairly light weight.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Exels are a little pricey for this application. Great guitar though.

Lane said:

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I have P5 on LKR, and I raise 3&7 with my last pedal. When I want C6 with a high G, I go up three frets, hit P5 and P8 together (boowah being on P7) and it's there from high G to low F.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Lane,

We're probably getting off topic (we should be told shortly), but I put pedals 7 & 8 on knee levers so I don't have to play with two feet. Going back in time, I think I would have rather out P5 on a lever instead of P7. I absolutely love P8 on a lever, but I still wish I was raising string 3 to C# somewhere. Not enough levers.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Fine. See me on the "Stories" board in a few minutes. It'll give you a chuckle
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I remember Johnny Cox had one on his Zum, ca. 1981. It didn't stay
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

FWIW, I had a S12-U that could be considered a fly guitar back in my Uni days. I ordered it early 90's on a single body with 7 + 4, with no frills or extra accoutrement.

It was light weight. Too light. I don't know if it was the extended 12 string body length, but it would dance around some when played, particularly when engaging the multiple pulls like say pedal 5 of the B6 but especially in combos of KL's and pedals in that tuning. It was an easy playing guitar without apparent excessive stress when pulls were applied, but it would rack diagonally depending on the KL/pedal combos used.

The necessary groups that make up the modern E9/B6 tuning as considered standard by today's standards seemed to require a more anchored instrument, as in weightier. Something to think about when considering a light Uni.

It was a joy to tote, but not to play.

If I were to ever buy another one, it would have to be keyless with more thought in building it light weight while still remaining stable. An instrument designed as a 12 string Universal. Not just a 12 string version of somebody's S 10. Unlikely occurrence.

I know most people don't like keyless, but perhaps there is greater acceptance among the Uni crowd. Some thoughts I have on the subject.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Perhaps that explains the cable stays on those two in that thread down \/ there?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Actually Mike, I have. I started another thread on the C# subject and we should take this over there as this is getting way off topic to the original post. I would really like to hear more about the pros and cons to the wrist lever.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

What I find amazing is this:

1) We know that only 10% of pedal steel players play S-12

2) 22% of the people answering this poll expect to buy a new S-12 in the next 5 years

How can that be? Did I word the questions wrong? Or are a lot of people planning to go the universal route Real Soon Now?
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Not just U-12 Bobby, but also Extended E9.

My guess is that as more and more players delve into playing rock, they want the extra bass strings.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I didn't think of that, B0b. Those with no interest in a 12 probably won't bother reading the thread, let alone take the quiz.
So the poll, by its location and nature, will select out the D-10 folks. And those who wouldn't want that wider neck.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

I played an S12 for awhile and I had a D12 for a long time but back to D10 since '96.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Good point, Lane. The title probably keeps 10-string players away. I'll reword the title to attract a larger audience.
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