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Topic: Guide to tuning an Emmons Push/Pull |
Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 5 May 2011 8:46 am |
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From time to time, a member of the 'Forum' will post asking how to tune an Emmons 'push/pull' guitar. On several occasions, in the past, I've posted a method. I'm reposting that method here.
With the OK from b0b and the 'Forum' at large, I respectfully request that this thread be made as a "sticky" for quick reference.
Please note: This is only a tuning guide, not a tutorial for setting up a push/pull.
Tuning an Emmons 'Push/Pull' Guitar:
| Glenn Suchan wrote: |
Sometimes p/p players get confused by the tuning. To make it less confusing let me just say there are three procedures: Open tuning at the key head, endplate tuning, and undercarriage tuning.
To start tuning, note which strings have pitch changes (both raises and lowers). Then check which strings have more than one raise or more than one lower. This is important because only the single greatest raise or lower per string will be tuned using the second or 'endplate' tuning procedure. All other, lesser raises and lowers are tuned by the third or 'undercarriage' tuning. You might want to keep a tuning chart in your pak-a-seat that indicates which adjustments are at the endplate and at the undercarriage. It'll come in handy for "bandstand" tuning adjustments.
NOTE: Most of the time, with a properly adjusted push/pull, tuning at the key head is all you'll need to do. More infrequently, you may have to tune the changer using the other two procedures. For example, if you change the gauge of any string, you WILL have to tune the changer for that string and possibly others. Also, changing brands of strings may require minor tuning adjustments.
1) The First Procedure: If you only need to tune the strings to open pitch (most of the time), the guitar is tuned just like all others; at the tuning keys.
2) The Second Procedure (tuning the changer, or strings and changer with the greatest pitch change) is as follows: First, tune all of the strings to open pitch at the tuning keys (this will give you the starting point by which you'll tune the changer). The second step will be to tune your changer starting with all your greatest raises (I start with pedals 'A', 'B', 'C', etc.). To do this, you'll activate the pedal (or knee lever) for the specific change you wish to tune. **Hint: When I tune pedal 'A' I always depress pedal 'B', too. The reason is, a lot of the time you'll be using both pedals simultaneously, and that will create more cabinet drop than just one pedal (cabinet drop is a form of mechanical pitch drop caused by the depressing of pedals). So, I tune pedal 'A' and pedal 'B' with both pedals depressed, and pedal 'C' with both pedals 'B' and 'C' depressed.** Now, to tune the greatest raises; on the changer endplate there are two rows of holes. Behind those holes are cap screws. These are for tuning the changer. The bottom row (closest to the floor) are for raises, and the top row are for lowers. OK, to tune a raise, depress the pedal to be tuned (pedals 'A' and 'B' for pedal 'A'...); then tune the raise at the tuning key (Don't worry about the fact that you just tuned that string to open pitch. This is where most folks get confused). After you've achieved the correct RAISE pitch at the tuning key, release the pedal(s) and find the bottom hole that lines up with the string you've just tuned for a raise. Using the correct size allen key, turn the cap screw to raise or lower the pitch to the correct OPEN pitch. (Turning counter-clockwise will lower pitch). Re check both raise and open pitches to ensure they're accurate. If not, repeat the procedure until they are correct, then move on to the next change. Do this until all the greatest raised pitches are correct, including knee levers. Next, select a string with greatest pitch lower. A good first choice on your guitar is the knee lever which lowers string four E to Eb. **Hint: When I tune this knee lever I always depress pedal 'B', too, since they are frequently used together** The first thing when tuning a lower is to check and tune the OPEN pitch at the tuning key. Then depress the pedal and or knee lever, locate the TOP row hole on the endplate which corresponds to the string just tuned. Using the allen key, turn the cap screw until the correct LOWER pitch is achieved (Once again, turning counter-clockwise will lower pitch). Re check both lower and open pitches to ensure they're accurate. If not, repeat the procedure until they are correct, then move on to the next change. Do this until all the greatest lower pitches are correct.
3) The Third Procedure (tuning the changer, or strings and changer with the lesser pitch changes): This will require you to locate a 'tuning nut' on the undercarriage. There will be one for each lesser pitch change per string. The most common one is on pedal 'C', for string five. This one isn't a lesser pitch than pedal 'A', string five, but it is subordinate. So, it uses the undercarriage tuning nut. Look at the undercarriage and find the bell crank which raises string five on pedal 'C'. You'll notice a collar on the pull rod which has a small spring and hex nut. This is the 'tuning nut'. Now, the procedure is as follows: Check to make sure all the open strings are tuned correctly at the tuning keys. Then depress the pedal or knee lever with the lesser raise/lower to be tuned. Let's do the 'C' pedal. **Hint: When I tune this pedal I always depress pedal 'B', too, since they are frequently used together** With the pedal(s) depressed reach under the guitar and feel for the 'tuning nut'. This takes practice. Sometimes, I'll look first, put my hand on the tuning nut, then proceed. Anyway, once you've located the correct tuning nut, with the pedal(s) depressed, turn the tuning nut until the correct pitch is achieved. (There is no 'rule-of-thumb' regarding which way to turn the nut to raise or lower pitch. It depends on how it is mounted in relation to the bell crank). Once the pitch is correct, you're good to go, so to speak. |
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus
Last edited by Glenn Suchan on 19 Oct 2011 8:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 6 May 2011 6:53 am
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2nd the motion.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 May 2011 6:09 pm
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I third that motion! Stickify this puppy!
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 7 May 2011 2:26 am
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Good idea. I "Stickey'ed" it.
You need a 7/64 inch Allen Key.
They really aren't that difficult to tune once you get used to the sequence.
Making changes to the setup is a whole 'nother story. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 7 May 2011 10:44 am
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One thing I need to add to my thread:
This tuning guide should be sufficient on a properly setup and adjusted push/pull guitar. If you have trouble achieving the correct pitch for open strings, pedals or knee levers using this guide, it may indicate your guitar needs an adjustment of the changer mechanisms. Such as, enough slack in the pull rods, proper tension of the return springs, range of travel and positive stops for the raise and lower fingers on the changer, and/or range of travel and positive stops for pedals and knee levers. These all need to be coordinated and balanced for each pitch change to achieve a functioning push/pull changer.
If you aren't confident making such adjustments, seek a reliable push/pull mechanic. There many throughout the USA and membership of this forum.
Once again, my original post was for the tuning of the instrument. Not a setup.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus
Last edited by Glenn Suchan on 19 Oct 2011 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Yahl
From:
Troy, Texas!
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Posted 8 May 2011 10:21 am 7/64" Tuning Wrench
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I have 7/64" Tuning Wrenches that I made, at the request of a customer, that should fit the Emmons. I believe that it was for this application.
You can find them at
http://www.psgparts.com/Tools_c5.htm
Thanks
Michael
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp
PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/ |
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Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Aug 2011 7:47 pm Tuning the great
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I never have owned one.
any of you That have one.I don't give a crap about feed back,on this post.
Send it to Bobbe,in nasville.If you can't afford that,hide somewhere ,and get another GEE tar.
When the real man was alive,he got together with Bob be and said this is what you DO!!!!!
I would suggest. Sending the Guitar,and forget it.
First class for years.Like a knife.When you arsharpening a knife.WRONG.
.It is sharppened all ready.
all you can do is to hone it.
By yourself,believe Me F O R g e T
Simple minded answers are excepted
Bill
_________________
Bill Mayville
06 Jackson Commemorative ,S 10
Black.For Sale . $18,000 Kidding |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 8:24 am
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Bill,
I appreciate your comments. However, I believe you might be suggesting a course of action for a push/pull which needs to be mechanically set-up. As I stated in my tutorial, my instruction is meant to help with tuning an already-set-up, ready-to-play instrument. Tuning, as in achieving correct pitch with the open strings and with the pedals and knee levers.
I'm sure Bobbe (although, I know he'd do his best to meet the challenge  ) wouldn't be able to handle all the guitars streaming in from around the world, each time they get out of tune.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Bob Grado
From:
Holmdel, New Jersey
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Posted 19 Aug 2011 2:54 pm
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For all players with Push/Pulls in the NY/NJ/CONN area.
Before you start pulling out whatever remaining hair you have left there's a simple way to resolve any Push/Pull problem you may encounter.
Call John Widgren in Milton, Conn. |
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Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 21 Aug 2011 3:50 pm
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| Not to take anything from Bobbe but there are any number of very good p/p mechanics around the country, Mike Cass, Tommy Cass, Albert Johnson, There are atleast two in Texas, a couple in the north west and no doubt others. There are also a couple of other instructions out there that explain things very well. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 10 Oct 2011 7:11 pm
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| Willis Vanderberg wrote: |
| Not to take anything from Bobbe but there are any number of very good p/p mechanics around the country, Mike Cass, Tommy Cass, Albert Johnson, There are atleast two in Texas, a couple in the north west and no doubt others. There are also a couple of other instructions out there that explain things very well. |
Add Lynn Stafford to that "short list"! |
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Emmons Guitars
From:
Burlington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2011 7:45 am Posted link
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I pray that the posted link is just an oversight! However, We have been contacted by our Patent Law Office. He asked us to look into this and officially state the following: "You are in violation of copyright and trademark laws" The Website to your post is NOT an official Emmons website. Please remove any and all copyrighted(Methodology and Practice in Pedal Steel Guitar)and Trademark Emmons!!
Kind regards,
Ron Lashley, President
Emmons Guitar Company
_________________
Emmons Guitar Co. by Lashley, Inc.
Phone 336 227-2782 |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 19 Oct 2011 8:17 am
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Hi Ron,
I've sent an email to the moderator of this section asking for the hyperlinks to be removed. As a result, I've been able to edit and remove the links. (Thank-you b0b  )
My most sincere apology for any problems the links may have caused. It was and is my intention to help owners of your wonderful push pull guitars tune their instruments.
Keep on building them!
Cheers,
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 8 Jul 2012 9:36 pm
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Glenn's description is great. I would add the following 2 steps after tuning:
1] turn your guitar over and make sure all raise fingers hit solidly against the guitar body when the pedal or knee lever is fully engaged. Similarly, the lowers need to contact the lower screws.
2] also make sure all changes (raises and lowers) on any given lever or pedal bottom out (raises against the body, lowers against the tuning screws) at the exact same time. This can be done by slightly moving rod collars toward or away from the bell cranks. Timing the changes will make your P/P play much easier. |
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Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 1:12 pm
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Question about tuning the knee levers. When I change my strings I have to go in and tune the changer especially for the levers on the 4th string.
How far in can you go in with the screws? Seems like every time I change the strings i have to tighten them up a little bit more every time. Probably by the next change of strings the screw is going to be in pretty far.
Next time I change my strings should loosen up a bit and then start over with the tuning?
I'm not very mechanically inclined, any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 7:49 pm Push/Pull
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I wish, every time someone mentioned something, here, or where ever, that people would use a little common sense to what is being said, or asked. Everyone today has to be so PC, that it's got to the point you can say anything, without some negative comment. Any person who can play a wonderful instrument, like the pedal steel, can most likely figure out, how to adjust the pedals, and changer. Yes, they can be easily mis-adjusted, but they can be brought back. Then you have the ones who can really fine tune them. Have worked with them all. Just my two cents.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 7:57 pm Changer
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Mark, if you use the same gauge string, you should not have to re-tune on the changer. If you do it would be oh so slight. Most likely your changer is out of tune, or not aligned. Winnie Winston does a nice job explaining the set up of these. They have the book on E-Bay, and it is a nice book to have. Good luck.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 8:20 am
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I think that he's losing the red stuff. Replace those screws.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 2:30 pm
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Replace the loc tite on the screws or put a spring on the screw to hold it from vibrating out of adjustment.
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 3:09 pm
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Mike, you may be right on this. Never thought of that.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Andy Eder
From:
North Florida, USA
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Posted 21 May 2015 7:32 pm Re: Posted link
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| Emmons Guitars wrote: |
I pray that the posted link is just an oversight! However, We have been contacted by our Patent Law Office. He asked us to look into this and officially state the following: "You are in violation of copyright and trademark laws" The Website to your post is NOT an official Emmons website. Please remove any and all copyrighted(Methodology and Practice in Pedal Steel Guitar)and Trademark Emmons!!
Kind regards,
Ron Lashley, President
Emmons Guitar Company |
Hi Ron,
You owe me $400.00 + interest for all the time you've had my $400.00 deposit for my first and last order as an "Emmons Dealer".
Last I heard, you did the same thing to a well known and loved Dealer in Canada. Did he ever get his guitars or his "deposit" back?
Your response is welcome, your father was a good friend of mine RIP.
Andy Eder
Andy's Guitars
Tallahassee, Fl. |
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Leo Derstler
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2015 10:21 am emmons p-p tuning problem
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I`ve followed Glenn Suchan`s excellent article on tuning an Emmons p-p steel.
First I tune the changer with all push-pull rods
dis-connected.The raise lever maxed to F#.The lower lever maxed to Eb.
After I tune the highest E to F# {C pedal }at the changer,the E to Eb [LKR ] barely lowers the E.
If I first tune the E to Eb knee lever,then the
C pedal raise only goes from E to about F.
I can get one or the other but,not both.
This is all on E9th 4th string E.
HELP !!
Thanks much,
Leo |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 16 Aug 2015 8:55 pm
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Check that you have enough distance between the collars and their bellcranks on the raise rod(arrowed in red). Not enough distance will prevent the lower from working.
When you have set the distance, you may have to increase the 'C' pedal throw (arrowed green)
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Leo Derstler
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2015 5:02 am
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Thank you Richard for responding.
I`ll give it a try.
Leo |
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Leo Derstler
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2015 10:01 am Reply to Richard
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What ended-up working was to move the raise rod
hook from the top hole to the bottom hole on
the raise lever !
The string gauge was the same as it was before
this problem occurred [ .014 ]
Do any forum members have an explanation.
Thanks ,
Leo |
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