Will a thicker pedal bar cure "walking"?

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

My guitar wobbles and walks around the stage due to the pedal bar flexing
as the pedals are pressed. Will a thicker, stonger, less flexible pedar bar cure this and if so,
will it then create other problems ie the guitar flexing somewhere else? My fear is
that I will then have more cabinet drop.

SLIM

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Sounds more like a drinking problem. Razz

I think it probably has more to do with the overall weight of the guitar. I dont think a stronger pedal bar will change it that much. I also dont think it is related to cabinet drop in a significant way. Perhaps a sandbag or spikes like those used on kick drum pedals might work. A rubber mat or carpet is another option that might help it stay put.

Clete

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

Clete is right. It's probably due to the weight of your guitar,..and, the fact that the pressure from the pedal rods exerts an outward force on the front leg, under the key-head.
My GFI D-10 is fairly light, and I had an issue with it 'walking' across my wood floor, here at the house.

I cured the problem with the use of a stabilizer, that I fabricated to combat those forces.
If you'd like, I can build one like mine to fit your guitar, or give you some pointers on how to make something similar for yourself.

If you'd like to, check out my You-Tube clip entitled "More Goodies for GFI Players". I show, and discuss the stabilizer, at the beginning of the segment.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Goodnooz4U#p/u/0/TriNEV7ZOCg

Thanks, DH
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Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer"

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Years ago I got hold of a industrial grade Mat with rubber backing and always carried it with me. It is big enough for all four legs to rest on it. It pretty much eliminated Guitar travel. My old drummer buddy from yeats ago, Mike Fury, always carried a hammer and about four inch naails. He drove them into the stage floor to keep his Drums from walking away. Mike was the kind of guy that could almost get away with murder. After the gig he would pull the nails out but did not fill in the lholes.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

If the rubber ends on the legs are worn or hard and brittle you might try some new ones to increase the traction.

Lynn Fargo · From: Fort Edward, NY

A carpet remnant just big enough for my 'Bud and the pack-a-seat to fit on always worked for me. Just roll it up and velcro-strap it for travel. Wouldn't leave home without it Winking

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

Dale, that is a great idea. They should come standard with every guitar.

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

Dale the stabilizer is a great remedy for curing the problem once it exists but I was hoping to eliminate the problem in the first place. Maybe I was not clear. Due to the pressure downwards pushing the pedals, the pedal bar is flexing so much that the legs are being pulled inwards and then pushed outwards as the pedals are released. When I reduce the pressure needed on the pedals by changing the bellcrank attachment points then the pedal rack does not flex as much and the guitar does not wobble as much. Since that option is does not balance the pulls like I like them, I want to reduce the flexing occuring on the rack and legs. A rubber mat would prevent the legs from sliping on the floor but would not prevent the flexing and subsequent wobbling of the guitar while playing.

So the question again would be whether or not a stronger, less flexible pedal rack would transfer the force that would have gone into the rack and legs and just create more cabinet drop? I mean that force has to go somewhere right?

Dale, do you notice in change in cabinet drop with/without the stablizer?

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Here's some thoughts.......

The cabinet drop shouldn't increase with the use of a stronger pedal bar...it will simply help prevent the "wobble" you refer to. And it would likely give the pedals a more solid feel as they bottom out.

You will still have the same downward forces at work when you press on the pedals, and the "cabinet flex" would be the same.

What would increase the cabinet flex would be stiff pedals. The more force you exert on the pedals to reach the desired note changes, the more downward force you exert on the cabinet. You might want to adjust the pulls as light as possible to avoid this.

You don't mention you guitar's make and model, so further suggestions are limited.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

The guitar is a "one off" all pull guitar so the brand is not relevant. I have adjusted everything to the lightest force I can get away with and still have the pulls balanced. The pulls are all about the same as with any other all pull guitar I have. The force required can only really be changed by a re-design of the changer finger pivot points as all other remedies have been applied. So I'm stuck with the force required, just trying to eliminate the wobble and flexing.

In my mind, if one part of the equation stops flexing,the next weakest point in the equation would then start to flex unless you get to the bottom of the pedal push first. Right now both the cab and the rack are flexing. Let's just say 1 degree. If I stop the 1 degree on the rack, won't the cab now have more force and possibly flex up to 2 degrees?

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

Contrary to everyone else's opinion, Bud Carter said he went to a heavier pedal bar to lower the center of gravity on the Carters, which made a light guitar more stable!JS

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Perhaps instead of replacing the whole pedal bar, you could fabricate a simple metal crossbar brace like Dale's but with C-clamps (with rubber to avoid scratching the legs) that could attach on both sides above the bar to keep the front legs rigid. Dale's idea looks great, but might not cure the "flexing" on your pedalbar.

Clete

Carl Kilmer · From: East Central, Illinois

I would try 2 things. First I would change the pedal bar.
This would probably cut down on the cabinet drop as well.
Next I'd change the legs to a better built and higher quality.
I've seen some steels with legs that can't be replaced with
others or they have aluminum legs that are too flexable and
the guitar will move all over when you use the knee levers.
I couldn't put up with a walking or wobbling steel guitar.
That's my 2 cents for whatever it may be worth.
Carl "Lucky" Kilmer
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aka "Lucky Kay"--Custom built Rittenberry SD10 3X5, Walker S/S, NV-112, and Hilton Pedal

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

...To answer your question, Slim,
No, I haven't noticed any increase in cabinet 'dip'. I don't always have to use the stabilizer. I do use it here, at my house, because of the wood floor.
It does make the pedals feel more positive, when it is installed, but otherwise, I haven't had any issues with tuning, or playability.
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer"

Bob Cox · From: Buckeye State

The snugster volume pedal bracket of mine will act as a stabilizer . Once on your guitar it snugs up and helps stabilize you guitar.

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

Thanks for all the help guys. I guess I never got the original question answered (will there be more cab drop if the pedal bar no longer flexes) but I was able to elimiante the walking.

I needed to lower the guitar for player comfort. I lowered it 1/4 inch or there abouts and now the left front leg no longer kicks out when the pedals are pressed. I'm not sure if it's because the legs are shorter and now there's not as much flexibility due to less leverage, or that the pedals are now lower and at a less steep angle. The overall change in height was very minimal but the effect was great.

To answer a previous question, yes that left front leg was kicked out further than the right leg. Not sure how to bring it in w/o recasting the end plate.

All is well now guys, thanks for your efforts.

Slim

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