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Topic: problem with Franklin Pedal G# to F# |
Ian Parks
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 12:33 pm |
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Hey everyone.
I am trying to learn how to use the "franklin pedal" on my Mullins Royal Precision 12 string, but I have run into a problem, according to this chart http://b0b.com/tunings/franklin the 6th sting g# is supposed to drop to a f#, but I cant't seem to get mine to drop that far down, the most I can do is a G. Now I typically don't like to mess around with the rods and the changers to much, so I have pretty much left the steel as it was when I bought it (I got it from here), but I have a feeling that I am not getting the right change with my "franlikn pedal". Does anyone have some advice on how I can get my changer to drop the whole step? Thanks, and sorry if I am asking a stupid question.
Ian Parks |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 12:38 pm
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ian, if you're not too far from Oceanside, give Jim Palenscar a call
http://www.steelguitars.me/
i know we can run you through the process but need a bit more info
like are the nylon tuners on too tight ? - is there enough travel on the rod that moves the bellcrank ?
one thing for sure is : it should go down to F# |
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Ian Parks
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 12:42 pm
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are the nylon tuners on too tight ? YES
is there enough travel on the rod that moves the bellcrank ? NO
Thanks for the fast reply.
I will give Jim a call.
Ian |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 1:15 pm
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| Good advice from CB as usual. I deleted a post I made with some info, but I was thinking lever...not pedal. The physics are the same, but the pedal is little trickier particularly if you're moving 2 other strings, so best of luck and hopefully Jim will get you going OK. |
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Ian Parks
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 3:51 pm
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| thanks guys |
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 8:42 pm
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If you can go see Jim Palenscar - he can fix it in a second! He IS the steel doctor!
Jim |
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James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2011 11:37 pm Re: problem with Franklin Pedal G# to F#
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| Ian Parks wrote: |
Hey everyone.
I am trying to learn how to use the "franklin pedal" on my Mullins Royal Precision 12 string, but I have run into a problem, according to this chart http://b0b.com/tunings/franklin the 6th sting g# is supposed to drop to a f#, but I cant't seem to get mine to drop that far down, the most I can do is a G. Now I typically don't like to mess around with the rods and the changers to much, so I have pretty much left the steel as it was when I bought it (I got it from here), but I have a feeling that I am not getting the right change with my "franlikn pedal". Does anyone have some advice on how I can get my changer to drop the whole step? Thanks, and sorry if I am asking a stupid question. Hi Ian. I had the same kind of trouble on my Carter S-10. It wasn't my Franklin pedal, but it was the same problem(No matter how far I screwed in, the nylon tuner, I couldn't get the pitch to go down quite far enough. It turned out to be, not enough pedal travel. On my Carter, it was a tiny allen head screw on the body, close to where the rod hooks into the belcrank on the cross-shaft. The screw controls how far the pedal can travel, when you push it down. I loosened up the screw a turn or two, and bingo, I was able to adjust the tuner enough to lower the pitch to the point I wanted. Not sure yours is exactly the same setup, but there has to be a pedal stop adjustment somewhere.I hope this has been some help, to you.Good luck! -Jake-
Ian Parks |
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Ian Parks
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 12:07 am
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James
Thanks for the tip, I will try it out for sure.
What is weird is that the 5th string B to A works perfect, if there wasn't enough travel on the pedal wouldn't that also be messed up? |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 12:57 am
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it's not the travel on the pedal Ian, but rather on the rod
(which is connected to the bell crank & that you tune at the other end w: da nylon tuner)
big diff |
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James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 1:17 am
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| Ian Parks wrote: |
James
Thanks for the tip, I will try it out for sure.
What is weird is that the 5th string B to A works perfect, if there wasn't enough travel on the pedal wouldn't that also be messed up? |
Not necessarily. Most steels have 3 or 4 positions on the belcranks where the horizontal rods fasten on. One could be farther away from the fulcrum than the other. The one nearer to the fulcrum would require less pedal travel than the one farther away. At any rate, if you have enough pedal travel, to cover both strings, you'll still have to adjust the nylon tuners to get the notes you want. When you get the problem solved, could you let us know what was causing it? I, for one, am curious. There is no limit to what one can learn about these things! -Jake- |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 7:27 am
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Ian,
Is it a wound 6th string? If so that's the answer.
The amount of throw (physical distance) the changer needs to travel to raise/lower a given MUSICAL interval (in this case a whole step) is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to the diameter of the string. The SMALLER the string the LONGER throw it requires. If it is a WOUND string that diameter is the CORE of the string. On a wound 6th the core is a SPIDER WEB -- teeny little string. Takes A LOT OF THROW TO MOVE IT A WHOLE STEP.
If you do have a wound 6th, it is logical that the 5th goes down a step easily. It's your largest diameter string. All the wound strings have smaller cores than the 5th (017 or 018).
Take a pair of needlenose pliers and physically pull the raise finger. You'll see how fast the 5th raises. Then try the 6th. With a wound 6th you will see how much more pull/throw it takes. If it's not a wound 6th it will pull SHORTER than the 5th and will be the largest diameter string on the E9 neck. It IS POSSIBLE to get a wound sixth to drop a whole step but it takes a long throw. That's one reason Paul Franklin uses a plain 6th -- he raises and lowers that string 2 or even 3 half steps (frets). Lloyd Green uses a wound sixth but doesn't raise or lower that string more than a half step.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Ian Parks
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 8:54 am
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Larry it is a wound string.
I will switch it to a plain,
Thanks for the advice.
Ian |
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James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2011 1:52 pm
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I don't know if you've noticed, but there is another guy having the same kind of trouble as you with a post nearby. He's Matt Cordano, and his topic is "5th pedal rod help." Some of the information contained therein may be helpful to your problem, also. One of the replys, dealt with increasing pull rod throw by moving the rod to a notch on the bellcrank further away from the fulcrum. This will work, but will increase required pedal pressure, especially when pulling more than one string. On mine, the pedal pressure bothered me more than more pedal travel, so I opted for increasing pedal travel over the increased pressure requirement of moving the pull rod to a farther notch on the bellcrank. It's all based on the "lever, and fulcrum" principle, and personal preference. Once you get it the way you want I think you will really enjoy your "Franklin Pedal"! I know I do mine!  -Jake- PS, I'm using a .017 plain 5th, a.020 plain 6th, and a.036 wound 9th on my Franklin pedal. All are dropped a full step with pedal depressed. I'm using universal tuning. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Oct 2011 10:10 am
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I've usually had to go to thinner strings to accomplish it on my Zum. Giving it more leverage didn't help: finger travel required was so great that it "picked up" the raise finger. I think I eventually eased the tension on the helper spring, but that was around 18 years ago.
On a side note, why is a change called Franklin that was on a knee in a Buddy Emmons instruction tab from the late 70s?
There were 12 Ray Price shuffles and an album: I wish I had that still. It used that change on, among others, "Walk Me To the Door. I rearranged my push-pull (Simmons calls it pull-release now) Marlen to hit that lick.
The Emmons tab called for half-step raise of 1 and whole-step lower of 6.
Last edited by Lane Gray on 10 Oct 2011 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 10 Oct 2011 10:18 am
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While Emmons lowers string 6 to F# on a lever, he didn't lower the 2 B strings to A on the lever. I've never seen Buddy Emmons with the "Franklin" pedal. I believe it got it's name because Paul uses it quite a bit on records and probably even came up with putting all three changes on one pedal. I know some people have been lowering the B's to A (or at least the 10th string) for many years (I used to lower 10 on my first pedal steel), and have been lowering 6 on a lever for many many years (I have had the change for close to 40 years), but it's the combination of the two that makes it "The Franklin Pedal".
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Oct 2011 10:45 am
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I gotcha. My new-to-me MSA dropped 5&6 a whole step on P1. I just rearranged it to the Franklin 1&2 raise. I have used that for a couple years, and the double drop is new to me. I'm ordering bellcranks, rods et c., and wanna add that to P5 to try it.
How does it get used? |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 9:53 am
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I have a wound 6th string and the G# to F# change on three different brands: Schild, MCI, and Carter. MCI, Carter, and Mullen steels all have 5-hole bellcranks and adjustable pedal stops, so I can't imagine a Mullen inherently not being able to handle that change.
Hans |
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