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Topic: Robot steel guitar |
Pavel Mikhailov
From:
Moscow, Russia
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Posted 26 Aug 2011 5:33 pm |
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I'm wondering if anybody make steel guitars (pedal or non-pedal ) with Gibson Robot tuners?
For those who is not famaliar with 'Robot' - it's kind of mechanical and electric system for tuning locking tuners of the guitar automatically during performance. It could save various tunings in memory and you can recall them any time. The tuning procedure takes about 10 seconds.
take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXlgYkuE8c
I think it could be specialy usefull in a world of steel guitar so I'm sure I'm not the first person who came with this idea, but maybe someone allready building such a guitars? As far as I know you can order Robot separately for you own guitar from guys who designed it (not Gibson.. ).
Finally, maybe Gibson will make new robot steel guitar one day? |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2011 5:44 pm
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A computer, as used in the robot, can only act on numbers. 440 being standard for a six string guitar will not work on a PSG. The computer would blow a fuse when you tune a string -4 or +9. LOL
In order to use something perfect like a computer you would need a instrument that was perfect. Pedal steel has not made it to perfect yet or the human ear has not made it ? Could be someday. We have some very good builders out there.
It would be nice to set your guitar up and tell it to " Tune Up " ! 
_________________
Bill |
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Pavel Mikhailov
From:
Moscow, Russia
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Posted 26 Aug 2011 6:36 pm
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Interesting.. Maybe you're right and there's no special need in this kind of technology. At least for everybody, at least for traditional music.
For me it would be very usefull- I use many exotic tunings on my non pedal guitar (and sometimes finding them during jam sessions, some unexpected situations etc.. ). I simply write them on a piece of paper if I can, of if there's no time- lose them. So 'memorize' function which build into guitar would be nice to have.
But there's another side of Robot technology: piezo pickup can separate strings and send the singnal of each string into it's own channel.
You probably will ask, what it could give? For example this way it is possible to make 'pedal steel' guitar out of non pedal - just put Digithech Whammy pitch shifting pedals on strings you want and voila! - you have 'virtual' pedal steel! You can programm it fast and easy without limitations of mechanics and it will be much more compact, realiable and simple in use.
Also with a help of computer and software like Guitar Rig you can enter (if you want ) into the world of completely new sounds, control not only pitch but anything you want with the same pedals (tone, volume, effects, etc ) it's limitless.
But there's still one question- do I really need it all? Don't know.. I'd say- yes... |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2011 11:27 pm
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Why not just learn to play a pedal steel?
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Igor Fiksman
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 12:12 am
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Hey, Pavel, privet. It's a bit of topic, but how much steel guitar is there beeing played in Russia nowdays? Any youtube links you could post. Thanks.
_________________
SHO-BUD Professional SD-10 Black, SHO-BUD Pro III Custom D-10 Red, Goodrich Matchbox 6A, Steeler's Choice seat, Quilter Steelaire Amps. |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 12:48 am
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| "Robot" technology is inevitable. Someday we will all be playing keyless, self-tuning instruments. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 4:53 am
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No, we will not 'all' be playing keyless, self-tuning instruments. Not till I'm dead, anyway.
Actually - I know many younger guitar players who are staking territory in exactly the opposite direction. As cultures become more and more technologically dependent, I think the human need for human-created art will become stronger and stronger. |
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 4:57 am
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| I believe Jason is correct. There is a general resistance to it so far but self tuning instruments are just in the pioneering stage and it will take time to perfect the technology. In the future people will look back at instruments that needed to be tuned by hand and shake their heads in wonder. Don't expect it to happen soon though. |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 6:02 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
Not till I'm dead, anyway.
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Which can't be soon enough, so that we can move on.
When I said "someday" I didn't necessarily mean within our lifetimes. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 6:14 am
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| Jason Hull wrote: |
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
Not till I'm dead, anyway.
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Which can't be soon enough, so that we can move on.
When I said "someday" I didn't necessarily mean within our lifetimes. |
WTF?
What is so important about 'moving on' (to what, pray tell) that you would wish me dead sooner rather than later?
But to your point - I think you'll find that many artists will not be in such a headlong rush to automate their art. My field for many years was automatic feedback control systems. After a certain point, one often begins to ask "Why?" is it so important to have everything controlled automatically, and why manual human control is not to be preferred in many, many situations . |
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 8:55 am
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I agree with Dave ,,,, I think there is a backlash against "automation" to some degrees. Once the novelty of an iPhone wears off you hear people complaining about having to answer emails & Facebook & the phone, etc all day long.
I can't see people using an electronically tuned violin........
And besides, the more whistles & bells you add to anything the more it costs & the more apt it is to break down - requiring more expensive repairs. I love technology. And my Rittenberry D-10 w/ 9 & 9 - fully loaded! But Lloyd Green sure sounds great with 3 & 4.
Give me the simple life!
Jim |
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 8:57 am
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Greetings Pavel & welcome to the steel guitar. Please write us & let us know about how the steel guitar is being received there in Russia. What kinds of music are you playing on it?
Jim |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 10:07 am
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| Pavel Mikhailov wrote: |
piezo pickup can separate strings and send the signal of each string into it's own channel.
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I have experimented extensively with Peizos, and found that there is no way they can effectively be used on a pedal steel guitar. The problem is that they pick up and amplify the sounds of the pedals being activated, as well as the strings. No matter what I did, including placing the Peizo under the strings between the nut and first fret, the problem persisted.
Perhaps there is a way that I don't know about of electronically filtering out the unwanted mechanical noise from the signal. My experience has led me to conclude that there is no way of preventing it from getting into the signal in the first place.
It is possible however to have each string going into a separate channel with magnetic pickups. The old IVL steel rider pickups did just that. They had individual pickups and outputs for each string. There is no reason (other than money) why somebody cannot make a similar (and probably better) pickup today.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2011 1:02 pm
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Jason, you need to go back to your own planet!
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Pavel Mikhailov
From:
Moscow, Russia
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Posted 28 Aug 2011 4:18 am
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Thank you all for answers and feedback. I think most of players are happy with current instruments / tunings / sonic palette and they simply don't need anything else. That's fine.
But at the same time there always will be innovators who will push the limits of the instrument, discover new possibilities and apply them to the new forms of art which maybe will become common in future. Probably this topic is created to attract their attention to 'Robot' technology, and it would be nice if it will inspire someone for experiments in this field.
About piezo pickups- very interesting info Mike, thank you. At least piezo could be used in non-pedal guitars. But now I'm wondering, is there any alternative to IVL steel rider? As far as I know IVL is very unreliable.. |
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Pavel Mikhailov
From:
Moscow, Russia
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Posted 28 Aug 2011 4:21 am
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A couple of words about situation with steel guitar in Russia. It is still extremely exotic and unexpanded here. As far as I know (and I've been searching for a while... ) there are 3 pedal steel guitars in the capital city Moscow (the metropolis with 20 000 000 population ). One is in private collection, another one is using by young person who is very antisocial, the last one is mine...
At the beginning I started to use psg as a background in poetry and spoken word performances, in live world/ambient music (which is maybe close to works of Bruce Kaphan ). Used it in a couple of concerts in Berlin (Germany ), Moscow and other places around the country.
Later as a consequence I started to spend more time with it, take lessons by internet from one of Hawaiian steel guitar masters, and little by little started to develop my skills. Now I'm using it often in solo projects and with my live band (the style could be described as eclectic, avantgarde indie rock music ). We made a couple of recordings with psg, but at the moment they're not released and not presented to public (but of course will be in near future ). I see, there are a lot of steel secrets and things to learn (and probably I'll visit US to learn them in near future ).
For the instruments- of course they all imported from United States or Europe. You can't find anything related to PSG in music stores here. By myself at the moment I own Carter Starter and MSA Super Slide, which is in a process of building and I hope will be shipped next month...
PSG looks and sounds very exotic for Russian listener. Then people see and hear the steel guitar for the first time they become very intrigued and maybe even surprised. I've met many men and women from the audience who willed to try it after the gig (mostly non-musicians.. ).
Besides that there are many blues and bluegrass dobro and slide guitar players here, it's easy to hear them playing every night at the bars and country music clubs. Some studios and mainstream bands have lap steels and use them mostly for recordings to provide additional colors in their music but it's not very common.
In next years my plan is to create pedal steel community here, offer steel guitar recording for pop artists at my own studio, probably teach steel. So if anyone will be interested or have some ideas- please feel free to share them with me. |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2011 3:28 pm to Pavel
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| Hello Pavel, I am from the United States, and I think you are a great person to spread this interesting instrument to other countries, would love to hear your material someday, keep on picking the steel guitar and let it be heard. Steve B. |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 31 Aug 2011 3:57 pm
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| Elton Smith wrote: |
| Jason, you need to go back to your own planet! |
You're right. Nobody but idjits down here. |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 1 Sep 2011 2:56 am greetings from Florida, USA
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I admire your aspirations toward the world of
Pedal Steel guitar, and wish you much luck in all your endeavors.
Rick |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 1 Sep 2011 6:37 am
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Pavel, this topic has already been aired in some detail. I contributed some on it myself, and so did b0b. Some people seem unable to see the difference between a guitar that tunes itself, and a guitar that plays itself. I'd hate the second option, but the first could be quite handy.
My idea went beyond self-tuning - it was a whole set of different copedents, which could be selected at the press of a button. No direct mechanical linkage between pedal and changer, but everything exactly and precisely governed by what you do to the pedal or lever. I haven't had time to tak ethe idea past some initial tests. I am convinced that somebody will make it work one day.
When it does, we will have a smooth, predictable instrument, no clicks and clacks from the rods, no wear, no lost motion, just 100% response from the instrument when you ask for something. I can't wait!
There will always be those who prefer to sail, using the wind, instead of a boat with a motor. I don't have a problem with that.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Sep 2011 6:47 am
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Pavel,
There have been robot tuners for pedalsteel before. I remember a guy about 12 years ago in St Louis who made an automated tuning system. It was programable and worked pretty well. There was very little interest in it though. I think the problem is that one of the main parts of learning how to play the steel is leaning how to play in tune along to whatever the current musical situation is. So once you have a notion of how to play there is no need for an automatic tuner. Its more simple and accurate to just listen and adjust by ear.
There is a large market for guitar gizmos that seem rather pointless. Like the light up fretboards to let you know where the chords are. I don't know how many of those sold.
There are automatic motorized tuners available that I have seen that would work on any instrument. They haven't caught on mostly because if you practice much at all there is no use for them in my opinion.
_________________
Bob |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2011 12:48 pm
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Jason,I really hate to agree with you. But you are right. A half century ago the Idjits as you call them were the minority and regular common sense prevailed. Not in TODAYS world.Today the idjits rule,They are EVERYWHERE,Just like Cockroachs. Idjits RULE. Don't believe it,Just tune on a radio station,Turn your idjit box on. Or just look at your goverment leaders.If anyone needs more proof then congratulation you are part of the majority rule.    YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 2 Sep 2011 8:56 pm
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I think Bob Hoffnar nailed it.
Charlie I found your last post offensive - I don't know what insulting everyone in the world who might not agree with you about whatever it is you are on about has to do with robot tuners or steel guitar. |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 3 Sep 2011 1:38 am
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| Bob Blair wrote: |
| Charlie I found your last post offensive |
Good! Otherwise the Forum would be boring. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2011 2:59 pm
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Bob.Don't be upset,Your surely are not the first and won't be the last to be offened by something I might say. If anyone expects me to subscribe to political correctness .If you have a feeling of wounded vanity or feel an angry fit of indignation coming on just take your steel out [Maybe you can get C3PO or R2D2 to tune it] and play [One toke over the line]about twenty times .[THEN DO IT] Might even give you a few original ideas.  YOU BETCHA.DYK?BC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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